Author Topic: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food  (Read 70741 times)

AstraNine

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #165 on: Jan 29, 2018, 11:37 »
This is a very interesting thread.

One question I have concerns the amount of meat used in cold pressed foods compared to the traditional extruded 5 star foods like Orijen and MWH. The new Tribal TLC has 35% fresh and the new Forthglade uses 17.5% fresh and 15% dried. Both these new foods seem to my uneducated mind a bit light in meat compared to others. Is this because they are cold pressed?

Carra-Pet Foods

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #166 on: Jan 29, 2018, 16:16 »
Similarly, as far as final processing method goes, I think most of us would agree that the pressing system used by MM is about as gentle on the ingredients as is possible to make a dry food. Erdem, you may dispute the temperature claim but I have no reason to doubt it. The experiment you suggest involving rubbing hands together is interesting and would have been relevant if the press was made of hands but, as far as I can recall, it was not. It was made of metal - a very good conductor of heat.

Which leaves us with the only real point of contention here - the pre-processing.

Virtually all of the ingredients used in MM are pre-cooked. That has been established. Many of the ingredients (the carbs for example) require pre-cooking to make them digestible for dogs. For those pet owners that are against carbs or cooking for dogs, this is obviously a problem but I have always found certain cooked carbs (brown rice, sweet potato etc) to be very beneficial for dogs.
Thank you for your reply David.

As I said, it was a very simple, mundane example to demonstrate how friction creates natural heat. The point I was making was that MM cannot tell you the exact temperature the ingredients are exposed to in the pressing process (They can only tell you the artificial heat they add to the process. During the pressing process friction is created which as a result creates heat) and that it is very misleading of any pet food company to push these headline figures of 40-45c when in actual fact the ingredients are exposed, whether in the pre-cooking phase or from the natural heat created during the pressing process, to much more heat. I should be very clear that the point regarding misleading consumers is 100% not aimed at Markus-Muhle - to my knowledge they do not push this 40c figure however there are some private label foods that do and will only mention the pre-cooking in their small print, often rephrasing it too.

It is also very positive to hear that Markus-Muhle are using high quality ingredients. As I believe I mentioned to you in an email, the correlation between the stated ingredients in their products and the analytical constituents did marry up to make you assume that the quality was high. It does raise further doubts over the ingredients lists of private label foods that may be produced by Markus-Muhle, who are claiming to have much higher meat percentages than MM's own food but with very similar analytical constituents.

I'm not sure if you have got around to reading my email from the other day but if you would be interested I'm sure I could arrange for you to be shown around Prins - not only would you be able to see the production process but we could arrange time to meet their dedicated team of vets and nutritionists too. They have been producing pressed food for over 50 years and actively work with several university's to research every aspect of pet nutrition - I'm sure they could help answer some of the unanswered questions raised here.

Meg

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #167 on: Jan 30, 2018, 01:22 »


Just to go back to fundamentals for a minute, with any food the three main issues that determine the nutritional quality are 1) ingredient quality, 2) pre-processing and 3) final processing.

Virtually all of the ingredients used in MM are pre-cooked.......... Many of the ingredients (the carbs for example) require pre-cooking to make them digestible for dogs.........

For the other ingredients and especially the meat, how much the pre-cooking affects the natural nutrient levels is an unknown at this point.
And this is indeed the point...  ;)

Meg

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #168 on: Jan 30, 2018, 01:46 »
Cold pressed food is clearly helping our dogs to live healthy lives....

Cold pressed dog food is one of many canine diets I feed. [Please note that I also feed raw, kibble, mixed wet and dry, home cooked and a canine-nutritionist-designed doggy diet to help avoid demonstrations of intolerance to ingredients :o, depending on the dog]. And thankfully yes mine are as healthy as I'd hope for and eagerly tuck into their food.

Hopefully it is fair to comment that cold pressed food is a 'popular' choice these days as a canine feed and this is currently being reflected in the poll on the allaboutdogfood website here:
 https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/dog-foods/3/all-about-our-dogs-dry-food-what-type-of-dry-food-are-you-feeding-nowadays/1355/ .

 It will be interesting to see how this generation of dogs fare eating cold pressed food long term.

Dottie

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #169 on: Jan 30, 2018, 17:18 »
Quote
Quote Seaweed: News from Forthglade of two new grain free cold pressed foods, also to be available in selected Sainsburys stores.
https://forthglade.com/2018/01/17/grain-free-cold-pressed-natural-dog-food/
These are now available instore in two flavours - chicken and duck. A 1kg bag is £6.  Each ingredient that is thermally pre-treated prior to cold pressing is marked with an asterisk. The carbohydrate source is sweet potato (28%).  The duck version is single meat source: 32.5% (17.5% freshly prepared duck, 15% dried ground duck.

This small size is well overdue and is just what is needed for people who wish to try the product or perhaps have small dogs.  Also might be suitable for people who usually raw feed but want something suitable to take on holiday or have maybe forgotten to defrost the food.
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Tinyplanets

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #170 on: Jan 30, 2018, 18:19 »
A very interesting discussion and one that I have enjoyed reading and thinking about. Like Meg I feed  a combination of foods. Raw, home cooked and cold pressed. I also use small baked kibble for training treats.  I do feel that we still have gaps in our information about cold pressed food and indeed all commercial dog food.

After lots of reading and weighing up my own priorities, my current preference is, raw complete as my first choice, home cooked, second. I don’t feel that I have the knowledge and experience to do this properly and be confident that my dog is getting everything she needs so I keep it at around 25% of my dogs diet. Then I favour cold pressed over extruded or baked food. I do have doubts about how the ingredients were treated before the cold pressing but I have made assumptions (my old boss was fond of saying assume makes an ass of u and me) based on texture and marketing, that the temperatures are lower than other methods used. I think what sold it to me was doing the test putting some cold pressed and some baked kibble in a glass of water and vinegar which is designed to mimic stomach acid. The cold pressed broke down really well whereas the other kibble I used held its shape and went almost rubbery! Cold pressed does seem to be easily digested by my dog and I use it to relieve constipation which can happen from time to time with raw.

I am sure the future will bring many more revelations about nutrition and I may well do a complete u turn. I think all we can do is feed what we feel is the best for ourselves and pets based on what we know and feel now. If I had a vulnerable person in my household, I probably wouldn’t feed raw. I have in the past, stopped for a while when family members are recovering from surgery. The ideal food would be full of all the necessary nutrients, tasty and germ free but I don’t think that exists yet.

I tend to embrace theories full on but then I am equally likely to reject them on contemplating there antithesis. I usually end up somewhere in between with many compromises. Last year I was practically eating a paleo diet myself even though it goes against everything I thought I knew about animal fat. I am now Vegan more because I could no longer ignore the internal struggle I was having about the questionable ethics of the diary and meat industry, than for health reasons. However I did lots of research and at the moment feel my health shouldn’t suffer if I do things properly. I may well have to rethink down the line but not about eating animal products. I just hope I don’t end up drinking my dinner in a complete drink!! I like my food too much.

Meg

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #171 on: Jan 31, 2018, 00:20 »
Yes it was the fairly crude, yet equally significant water-plus-vinegar test which pipped the post when considering whether to feed cold pressed food to deep chested dogs, with their greater 'risk' of bloat.
 That, and the denser calorific content in cold pressed food which equates to a quickly available consumption of necessary nutrients, without ingesting added volume.
 
Quote
I do feel that we still have gaps in our information about cold pressed food and indeed all commercial dog food.
Yes absolutely agree with you. It is frustrating when we care so deeply and try so hard to feed our dogs well and keep them healthy and strong. And yet we are lacking important data to be as successful as is possible.

Thankfully the allaboutdogfood website is an invaluable resource and helps enormously to guide us to make better informed choices.

AstraNine

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #172 on: Jan 31, 2018, 09:21 »
This is a very interesting thread.

One question I have concerns the amount of meat used in cold pressed foods compared to the traditional extruded 5 star foods like Orijen and MWH. The new Tribal TLC has 35% fresh and the new Forthglade uses 17.5% fresh and 15% dried. Both these new foods seem to my uneducated mind a bit light in meat compared to others. Is this because they are cold pressed?
[/quoted]

My question was prompted because I want to switch my 10yr old Lab from a mid level grain free extruded food with 26% meat to a cold pressed food. But I want to make only one switch and to get the best I can. So am I better off with a cold pressed food like the two I mention in my original question or just go to a 5 star extruded food?

Dottie

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #173 on: Jan 31, 2018, 10:15 »
Astranine - there is no clear answer as it depends on the dog. Assuming that your dog, at ten years old is less active then I would have thought that the protein content in cold pressed food is quite high enough. My dogs are younger than yours but are not particularly active so they are suited to cp food. However, I tend to add various and alternating protein toppers once a day. It gives more variety. No real need to do this but they seem to do well on this regime.

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AstraNine

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #174 on: Jan 31, 2018, 11:25 »
Yes she is less active nowadays. But everything I read about older dogs suggest they need much higher protein content which Im not sure cold pressing will give me. But the overall concept of CP I definitely buy into.

Dottie

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #175 on: Jan 31, 2018, 11:52 »
I read that too but I have also read that older dogs need less fat and protein to prevent weight gain. That is why some companies sell senior lifestage products.  If the older dog needs to keep weight up then perhaps a higher protein and fat diet would be an advantage. Conversely, a lower protein and fat diet might suit the dog that is less active and puts weight on easily.

I suspect that quite a few regular users of cold pressed food add protein toppers and Gentle probably recognised this because a while ago they introduced Gentle Pure which is described as a complementary food and is 100% meat.

I sometimes substitute the dinner time meal with a high quality, low carbohydrate wet food to increase variety. I’m not a nutritionist but my theory about this, and about topping up is that it lowers the carbohydrate and raises the protein. All I know is that my two seem to do well on this regime. My eldest dog (14 years old) died last year and she tolerated, and enjoyed her usual food right up to the end of life. 

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AstraNine

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #176 on: Jan 31, 2018, 16:45 »
Good advice thanks.

I already have two 1kg bags of the new Forthglade CP grain free so we'll see how she likes it. Hopefully some larger size bags will be available soon.

Carra-Pet Foods

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #177 on: Jan 31, 2018, 17:27 »
As Dotite says you can get contrasting opinions regarding protein and fat levels for senior dogs - the pet food company that I'm involved with offers a food designed specifically for senior dogs and their nutritionists believe that a lower protein level and ever so slightly higher fat content is most suitable for senior dogs. Ultimately all dogs are different and exactly what your dog will need will depend on his/her lifestyle and metabolism. The one thing you should look out for most in a food for a senior dog is the phosphorus content due to the potential for renal failure with older dogs.

AstraNine

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #178 on: Jan 31, 2018, 17:45 »
Phosphorus content is stated as being 0.9%. Is this normal?

Carra-Pet Foods

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Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
« Reply #179 on: Jan 31, 2018, 17:56 »
Phosphorus content is stated as being 0.9%. Is this normal?

0.9% is fine. Foods with 1.2% or more I personally wouldn't recommend for a senior dog.


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