Wet Food Additives

[AstraNine]

To get an idea about dry food carbohydrate level just take the sum of protein plus fat plus fibre plus ash plus moisture and deduct from 100. This gives an approx level of carbohydrate or NFE (nitrogen free extract).

[vivann]

This is very confusing.  I have just done the Walker and Drake chicken version in the instant food review and got 87%.  I included the nutritional additives and removed the dots and replaced with a comma.

The Aflora Cold Pressed chicken looks good too.

[Dottie]

The Instant Review Generator returned a nutritional rating of 88% when I tried it. The list only includes a percentage only for the first ingredient which is chicken. No mention of the percentages for the second, third or fourth ingredients, sweet potato, beet pulp and peas.

[David]

I can see that the instant review generator is causing a bit of confusion, for which I apologise. I'm afraid it's still a bit temperamental and if everything isn't entered exactly as it expects, it can give incorrect readings.

First, you should only enter the ingredients list (sometimes called composition) so not the nutritional additives or anything else. And then all the ingredients need to be separated by a comma.

So for Walter & Drake Ocean Fish, the ingredients list should read:
Dried Ocean Fish 42%, Sweet Potato, Beet Pulp, Chicken Oil, Peas, Fish Oil, FOS Inulin, Yeast Bio-Mos, Psyllium Husk Powder, Apple, Carrot, Tomato, Seaweed, Cranberry, Flavour Bioflavex, Glucosamine, Fenugreek, Green Tea Extract, Fennel Seed, Blueberry, Yucca Schidigera, Chondroitin, Marigold Powder, Devils Claw Root.
Which provides a nutritional rating of 86%

And for Aflora Beef and Whitefish:
Dried Ground Beef 32%, Sweet Potato 30%, Dried Ground White Fish 10%, Peas 5%, Tapioca 6.5%, Beet Pulp 5%, Rapeseed Oil 3.5%, Linseed Oil 3.5%, Vitamins & Minerals 1.25%, Dried Vegetables (Carrot, Celery Root), Dried Apple, Dried Herbs (Sage, Thyme, Oregano), Seaweed, Yucca, Fennel, Nettle, Chondroitin, Glucosamine, Turmeric, Dandelion Root.
Which provides a nutritional rating of 87%

I hope that helps.

[vivann]

Yes, very helpful thank you David.  Just tried the Walker and Drake Chicken menu and it comes out at 87%, Ocean Fish menu 86%, Duck menu 88%.  The Alflora Chicken is 78%.

One thing puzzles me, with the W&D menus they only give the meat or fish percentage of the ingredients so how can the calculator work it out accurately?  I notice Alflora give more information regarding percentages of ingredients.

[David]

One thing puzzles me, with the W&D menus they only give the meat or fish percentage of the ingredients so how can the calculator work it out accurately?  I notice Alflora give more information regarding percentages of ingredients.

Great question Vivann. The rating algorithm essentially takes whatever percentage information is available and uses it to fill in any blanks by calculating the possible range of percentages for each ingredient in the food.

Wherever information is not provided, it always assumes the worst. So when the percentage of a desirable ingredient like meat is missing, the algorithm will assume it it the lowest percent possible and for undesirable ingredients like fillers etc, it will assume it is the highest possible percentage.

In this way, even when few or even no percentages are provided, we are still able to get a fairly good estimate of how much of each ingredient a food is likely to contain.

Of course, this could result in a score that is lower than it would be if all of the percentages were provided but as a general rule, companies only withhold information if they believe it is in their interest to do so, so by assuming the worst you usually get quite close to the truth.

We're also huge advocates of clear labelling so are keen to reward those companies that have open, transparent ingredients lists and downgrade those that do not.

I hope that all makes sense.

[vivann]

I have been looking at various cold pressed foods and have come across Walker and Drake   https://walkeranddrake.com  and Itsdogfood  https://itsdogfood.com/pages/why-cold-pressed

I wonder if anyone has fed either of these brands to their dog/s and if so what do you think of them.

I notice that these two manufacturers talk about lower temperatures but they use different temperatures to each other to cold press.

I am also struggling to find something with a low carbohydrate content, only found Akela 50:50, Cobbydog Fish supper (cold pressed - seems to be the only cold pressed they do) and Pure (air dried) chicken that have lower carbs.  Pure don't do samples and I have spoken with a poodle breeder who usually has six dogs in residence, she tried Pure (a couple of varieties) and not one of her dogs would eat it!

[Dottie]

I have no experience of feeding Walker and Drake cold pressed food. It has only fairly recently come on to the market. Finding a low carb dry food is problematic because they need starchy ingredients to give form to the food. There are a few that have average carbs but they are usually the high quality, high protein ones. Setting the carb filter to 1% to 30% returned three pages of products with an average carb content. High protein/high fat is a feature of this type of food.  You can search for these using the filters in the Dog Food Directory. AFAIK the best way of reducing carbs is to feed a good quality wet food, raw or fresh cooked food.

[vivann]

I don't want to feed raw and I have tried Natures Menu Country Hunter and their Original wet food.  Mia doesn't like the chicken one and it seems to upset her stomach - happened first with the Country Hunter which is 80% meat so I assumed too rich for her but happened again with the Original 60% meat.  Strange that the was turning her nose up at it as she loves chicken or turkey.  Have been cooking meat and vegetables for her and adding to her kibble.  Tried the Walker and Drake samples as treats and she is very happy with it but I suspect it may have a high carb content - they don't know as haven't had it evaluated for that.

Have thought about using Pure Vegi plus and adding home cooked meat - I think you have mentioned before it does get very expensive trying these different foods!

Better mention that I am looking for lower carbs as I suspect the high carb in the Purina HA she has been since December is what is making her more itchy than before - just a theory but worth a try.

[Dottie]

Yes, I did mention Veggie Plus Mixer. It might be worth a try. Home cooking is an option but it is essential to research it. Calcium needs to be added and oils for omega 3:6. Meat content is usually ok at 60%. Did you check out Different Dog? Their varieties mIght be useful - carbs tend to be low average.

[vivann]

Just had a look at Different Dog and picked myself up off the floor.  I live on OAP and there is no way I could keep a dog that would cost me £75 a month to feed.

Just got three free recipes from Vet Chef and they may be worth a try.

Pure Vegi Plus says 1.5 scoops to 3 scoops water to 60-80g of protein.  Not sure how to work that out, is it say 80g meat or fish or do I have to try to work out how much protein is contained in said 80g meat/fish???

[Dottie]

DD can be expensive if you are feeding it entirely. It also depends on how much the dog needs. It is high quality and dogs often need lower amounts of such foods. In my case I find that the dogs don’t need much and as one of them has been poorly the cost is offset by much reduced veterinary visits.

The VetChef recipes might be a good way forward. You could batch cook and freeze. There are some useful Facebook groups on home cooking for dogs - I have listed the ones that I know about in the home cooking section. They tend to be American and I get the feeling that they are way ahead of us in providing help and support for owners who wish to cook for their pets. The people in the groups seem very knowledgeable. One of the groups (101) has a useful chart which you can print off and fill in to make sure you are getting the percentages right.  I can’t home cook for my dogs but if I could I would follow the correct recipes and not take them from the Internet/YouTube because some are unbalanced. It takes experience to realise this of course.

The Dog Nutritionist website might be worth looking at but I believe there is a consultation charge. One of the FB groups recommends the book Yin and Yang.  I understand that it contains recipes.

[vivann]

I just went onto DD website and put my dogs details in, if feeding her just DD she would need 240g per day at £1.80 a day.  Still too much.  I would be happy to feed her with cold pressed with a bit of home cooked meat and veg added as a part of the daily allowance.  I just feel that the high carbs she has been getting has made her itch more and if I can control that with diet rather than medication I would be happy.

It is depressing that looking at Vet Chef and DD etc. the dogs seem to get better quality food than I do!  But then that is for the photos and may not be reality.

[lewie0205]

Have you looked at Forthglade wet food. I shouldn’t feed my dog kibble as he’s allergic to storage mites as well as other things. I’ve found feeding guidelines/ price very reasonable and he’s doing really well on it. He can’t have many flavours due to his allergies but the ones he can have don’t upset his stomach or give him eye melting wind!! I order it from either Fetch or Zooplus as this makes it very reasonably priced in comparison to other wet foods & shops

[Dottie]

Vivann - that sounds a lot for a Miniature Poodle. My 6.5kg dog gets 200g. The 8.6kg one gets 250g but I have recently had to reduce it to 200g as she has put a bit of weight on. I know what you mean about the dog eating better than us. I sometimes think that myself - it’s probably true.

For some time I fed cold pressed food at the bottom end of the RDA (or a little less) and enhanced it with low fat protein (chicken, fish etc) and maybe a few blueberries and cooked mashed veg (non starchy is best). Unsurprisingly the dogs did well on it!