Adult V Junior Markus Muhle Black Angus

[Tigger69]

Hi all,
 I presently feed my two Keeshonden Markus Muhle Black Angus adult (rated 4.4) which both dogs love and we are happy to feed, both dogs also have fruit, veg, cooked chicken and sardines included in there diet.
 However we are getting a new addition to our pack soon and therefore have been looking at kibble for the puppy. MM Black Angus adult can be fed from 2 months of age and comparing this to the Junior variety I can't see much of a difference in the ingredients although the instant review generator gives it a score of 4.1 and highlights corn as a ingredient which is not great.
Presuming the Junior variety is designed with growing puppies in mind I'm a bit concerned IF i was to introduce the pup straight on to the adult variety at 8 weeks old, she may not be getting everything she needs nutritionally, what do you guys think?

[Dottie]

A number of foods labelled for puppy lifestage give a protein content of circa 30%. Adult Black Angus is 28.3 so is not far off. With your tasty and nutritious toppers I would have thought that Adult would be suitable, given in the correct amount. I think it is up to 2.5% of the pup's body weight but just check that please. As you know, it can be softened with warm water (never boiling) to make to the consistency of your choice - perfect for puppies. Last summer I made cold pressed ice pops and I think that this would be helpful for those sore gums as they are teething.
The person to ask for more detailed information is Beate Rothon and her contact information can be found on the Gentle website. If you do contact her, please can you let me know what she advises?
Hopefully we will get more detailed replies later in the day - I would be interested to hear other views.

[Red_Akita]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!
I think there will never be a general agreement on the corn dispute, my understanding is that you are not a big fan of it, which is perfectly understandable.
The main difference between puppy and adult food is that the former has slightly higher content of proteins and vitamins (and corn) to help with the growth. Since you are integrating your dog's dry food with other fresh ingredients, I think you are in a good position for striking the right balance of nutrients for your puppy.
At the end of the day, vitamins are added to dry food because they get lost during the production process so actually replacing them with fresh fruit and veg is only going to be better.

[Dottie]

I've just checked the ingredients for the junior version and it states 'ground wholegrain corn'. I know from previous enquiries that some of the ingredients in cold pressed food sound unusual to us and that this is due to translation issues. The addition of corn to the junior version may be one of these. From what I understand Markus Muhle include ingredients that they believe to be of nutritive value to the animal so they may well have good reason for including it. The only person that I know of who would have this information is Beate.

[Red_Akita]

Good point about the translation, Dottie.
However I've checked on the German website and it states vollkornmais gemahlen, which is actually wholegrain corn flour (or meal).
To be fair, the content is just above 5% so I don't really think it will have a massive impact, unless there is an allergy problem.

[Tigger69]

Hi Dottie and thank you for your reply,  I will indeed check the quantities for the pup, our two adults are fed below the recomended guidleines of kibble at 278g a day, Zak is on 190g and Ella is 160g which maintains their ideal weight with additional toppers and veg /fruit treats I honestly dread to think the size of them both if we stuck to the recommendations.
 I am planning on introducing cooked chicken first off but will have to wait and see how the pups develop and the stage our breeder is at with the litter before hand over - she does usually have them on chicken though, so hopefully that will cover the protein shortfall in the kibble.
Consistency I hadn't actually considered, MM is cold pressed so will not swell and soften unlike the kibble our breeder feeds - thank you Dottie
 I do need to research a bit more on what toppers can be introduced and at what age for the pup, once I have done that I will contact Beate Rothon and see what advise she gives and will of course let you know. Thanks again Dottie

[Tigger69]

Hi Red Akita and thank you for the welcome and replies.
You are correct I am not a great fan of Corn or Maize, we previously had a GSD who had a allergic reaction to a well known off the shelf kibble - we researched and learn't so are a lot more careful in what we feed our present two Kees , Corn and Maize are both ingredients I tend to stay away from. Although I understand the content is just above 5% this is what gave me doubts along with the drop in rating to 4.1 in comparison to the adult variety of 4.4 but from what I have read the corn could explain the drop but something which I will refer to Beate as Dottie suggests.
 Again thank you for your input it always helps knowing I am on the right track. 

[Dottie]

Red_Akita - thank you for checking the translation. The issue of corn in dog food is explained here on this website and here on the Dog Food Advisor website. As you say, it is controversial but for my dogs I would prefer not to have it in their diet if there is no proven nutritional value.  Luckily, MM give a percentage of the product and it is quite small but I would be interested to know why they include it at all. I am currently following their Facebook page and using the translation button.  I don't know if they reply to queries though.

Tigger69 - I too am at the bottom end (1%) of the percentage of the ideal body weight.  In fact currently the eldest one is a tad lower because she needs to lose a little bit of weight.  I tend to top up with a small amount of lean protein but I am thinking of putting her back on a  replacement meal of cooked vegetables, blueberries and lean meat/fish for a week or two because last time I did this it shifted the weight very nicely.

[Tigger69]

Dottie MM on fb have replied to me previously and kindly sent me some samples a while back, unfrortunately of late they have not been so responsive, I questioned the age at which the red deer venison variety could be fed from as I couldn't seem to find the information, they have yet to reply to me on that, hopefully they will respond to your question as it would be interesting to have there input.

Both my two are needing to loose a bit of weight at the minute so they are having a reduction in their normal quantities, I bought them a activity memory trainer for Christmas, press the button and they receive a treat - although Zak doesn't always like pressing the button, Ella is quite happy pressing the button and letting Zak get the reward by her weight gain though I'd say she hasn't been keeping herself short of extra treats.