All About Dog Food Forum
Dog food and feeding => General discussion => Topic started by: Seaweed on Oct 23, 2015, 16:23
I have a completely open mind when it comes to vegan, vegetarian dog food. I'm not seeing dogs falling over in the street because they are on these diets. I know they don't tend to score very well on the dog food sites but what is the true reality of vegan, vegetarian dogs, are they just as fit and healthy as any other dogs or perhaps even more so. We've seen on the forum how dietary intolerance can be a problem and the stress and worry it can cause the owner, not least the dog. So if a follower of the forum has made a change to vegan, vegetarian dog food or for whatever reason perhaps they would like to drop in and tell us about their experience. I suspect not many people who use vegan, vegetarian diets use the forum which is a pity as the more we talk the more we learn
An interesting topic Seaweed, I saw a bit about feeding dogs a vegetarian diet on a TV programme once. Although I wasn't convinced, I certainly didn't feel as negative about it as I had before seeing what the dogs were eating,
Since having a dog, I have been feeling less and less like eating meat myself. We have been trying some veggie recipes and having one a week at the moment. Some have left us feeling like we need something more, other have left us satisfied so more trial and error. I can't see me opting to go that down that route with the dog though.However I would be interested to hear peoples experiences.
In 1994 PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) conducted a vegan, vegetarian Dog Health Survey of 300 dogs over a 12 month period. It was a survey of vegan, vegetarian dogs only and did not have a control group of dogs on a meat based diet. Although this survey is some years old, it still makes very interesting reading and does give an insight into this type of diet. Dog food manufacturing does not stand still and I'm sure many will have taken on board the conclusions of this survey.
The following link opens in pdf. www.pkdiet.com/pdf/alkaline/doghealthsurvey.pdf
Allegedly PETA have in the past made some controversial statements, however, I am not disputing all the content of the study.
We have a vegetarian in the household & although I eat meat I have reduced my intake of red meat significantly.
The alleged moral and health benefits for humans eating vegetarian are fairly well documented.
It will be interesting to see if a significant manufactured dog food develops (said the poster currently feeding an 80/20 product).
In 2009 The British Journal of Nutrition published a research paper by Dr Wendy Brown and her team" An experimental meat-free diet maintained haematological characteristics in sprint-racing sled dogs". This is where twelve pure bred Siberian Huskies were fed either a meat based diet or a meat free diet, the whole experiment lasted 16 weeks. The Huskies were competitively raced over 10 weeks. If anyone is interested in reading the full paper click on the red PDF at this link.
The Armidale Express.com.au also ran an article www.all-creatures.org/articles/cac-armidale.htm
I myself am a vegetarian and look at it this way. If I wasn't able to feed myself and my dog could make the choice as to the type of food I'm fed, I wouldn't be very pleased if she chose to fed me meat. Before choosing to feed a dog a totally vegetarian diet, I think extensive testing should be done where the dog is given a choice of either a veggie meal or a bowl of regular food. I'm guessing that when given the choice, they would pick meat every time. If you decide to feed your dog a vegan or vegetarian diet because of your own ethics, then I don't believe you should force something upon them which is unnatural. If you can't stand preparing raw or feeding tinned foods then kibble is available and I would like to hope that's acceptable by any veggie or vegan owner. I wouldn't dream of forcing a veggie diet on my dog, and have in the past chopped up raw liver and chicken for her. I didn't find it pleasant doing so, but will do it for the overall health and benefit of my dog. It would be interesting to see a study done on veggie fed dogs over their complete lifetime to see if there are any health drawbacks or whether it decreases their longevity.
Silverb19 thanks for posting. I myself feed a complete raw diet and it's something that suits my dogs. I understand and respect your views and it is shared by many. I myself don't see feeding a vegan, vegetarian diet as the norm, a problem ( I know many will disagree) providing like any other diet it is done with care and understanding. It is the total health of the individual dog that counts and if a vegan, vegetarian diet can give a dog a long and healthy live that's fine by me. Interestingly "Bramble" the blue merle Border Collie bitch who lived to 27 years old is often brought to the front by vegan, vegetarians in defence of this type of diet. Bramble was a rescue dog in the care of a lady called Anne Heritage. Of course dogs on a meat based diet have also lived a very long life. www.ourdogs.co.uk/News/2002/October2002/News111002/ripeold.htm
When I see dogs on meat based diets and see so many suffering with allergies and anal gland problems both so difficult to deal with and with dogs going to the vets monthly to have their glands expressed which goes on year after year I do wonder rather than struggle on and on with a meat based diet, they wouldn't be better off on a vegan, vegetarian diet or at least give it a fair trial. Yes, I also would like to see a long term study done perhaps someday it will happen. I can see vegan, vegetarian diets for dogs becoming more popular through customer demand as time goes on, as people move away or cut right down on meat in their own lives. Looking around at the vegan, vegetarian dog food shop front, there appears to me, to be still a gap in the market for more premium British made vegan, vegetarian dog food ranges. As for the omnivores or carnivores debate in which one could drive oneself barmy trying to get to the bottom of, for me in two sentences Dr Sarah Ritzie (Royal Canin) sums it up very well. The reason.... www.petfoodnutrition.com/carnivore-vs-herbivore-vs-omnivore/ The vegan, vegetarian vs meat diet is certainly a subject of great debate.
Well Seaweed, I didn't think it would happen but I shall now keep an open mind about the idea of feeding Vegan or Vegerarian diets to dogs. I know from personal experience that it's possible to get everything you need nutritionally from them, so why not dogs? If they enjoy what they are being given, and provided it's nutritionally balanced, then I suppose that's all that matters. Unless it it scientifically proven by a long time study, who's to say it's bad for them?
My personal view is that i always feed a meat based diet to my dogs.
However, i do think dogs have evolved as scavengers that live alongside humans - i believe they are far better at breaking down
carbs than wolves are and can utilize good quality protein sources meat or not.
I dont personally buy into the 'dogs are wolves' argument, humans are 99% genetically similar to chimps, but our diets are very different.
Having said that, my dog enjoying their food is a major factor for me- and i THINK my dog prefers to eat meat.
Veganism For Carnivores by Rodney Habib. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/veagn-diet-for-carnivores/
It is my personal opinion that dogs should not be vegan or vegetarian. Whilst I don't dispute that manufacturers can create a vegetarian food that provides everything a dog needs, I don't believe it can ever be optimum, and definitely not for cats. Ultimately, it is unnatural.
'PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) claims the nutritional needs of dogs and cats can be met with a balanced vegan diet.
All of my nutritional study has taught that cats are obligate carnivores and must eat meat to survive. Taurine is an essential nutrient for cats as they cannot produce their own - it cannot be sourced from plant based foods and would have to be supplemented synthetically. Personally, I completely disagree with the statement that cats can be vegetarian or vegan.
This is a very interesting topic and one which I shall research further. If any one else has links to scientific papers comparing meat and plant based diets, and long term effects of high carb diets in dogs please share! Thanks for starting.
Indogo, a Canine Based Plant Nutrition Company based in Vancouver appears to be presently running feeding trials, they are hopefully going to make the results made public this year. This is an interesting company and in my opinion it's worth spending a little time going over their website. http://www.indogocanine.com/
Lily's Kitchen are to launch a Vegetarian wet dog food "Wholesome Veggie Feast". It will be very interesting to read the reviews over the coming months especially the dogs who have allergies to meat.
Lily's Kitchen " Wholesome Veggie Feast" is now available.
Carrots, Cottage Cheese, Parsnips, Dried Egg, Pumpkin, Broccoli, Amaranth Flakes, Linseed Oil, Oat Flakes, Apples, Beans, Chickpeas, Yeast, Vitamins & Chelated Minerals, Lentils.
Crude Protein 6%, Crude Fats & Oils 6.1%, Crush Ash 1.4%, Crude Fibres 0.4%, Moisture 73%.
Nutritional Additives (per kg), Vitamin D 600IU
Trace Elements (per kg) Zinc Chelate of Amino Acids Hydrate 1,500 mg, Cupric Chelate of Amino Acids Hydrate 150 mg, Iodine as Calcium Iodate 25 mcg, L-Carnitine 20 mcg
Natural Thickener (per kg) Locust Bean Gum 1g
i think that food with meat is the best choice for dog
An update to the Vancouver based Dogg Canine Nutrition Company (previously known as INDOGO) feeding trial. The results of an informal 12 week plant based feeding trial is now in. They are to release a formal announcement along with a summary and clinical abstract in the coming weeks. Here is a statement from the Supervising Veterinarian at Yaletown Pet Hospital.
That all sounds quite positive. Good news for anyone thinking about a meat free diet.
Dog food studies seem to be few and far between however recently a dog food study, Vegetarian versus Meat-Based Diets for Companion Animals was published.
Tara's vegan story has made some of the daily nationals but I believe this was the original article. Looks like a tray of Benevo Grain-Free Vegetable Feast with Mixed Herbs next to the Yarrah Dry Dog Food. Benevo is not rated in the food directory at present but the ingredients for this particular product is
Composition: Lentils (10.0%), Potato (5.5%), Chick Peas (5.5%), Peas (4%), Carrots (4%), Sunflower Oil (4%), Linseed Oil (1%), Tomato (1%), Sunchoke (0.5%) Mixed Herbs (0.5% Rosemary, Parsley, Oregano, Marjoram & Mint), Seaweed (0.25%), Minerals
Moisture 70%, Protein 6%, Fat Content 5%, Fibre 0.5%, Ash 2%
Meg thanks for posting. I hadn't read that article before. Indogo mentioned in the article is now the Dogg Canine Nutrition Company.
Making My Dogs Vegan. Rodney Habib talks on making dogs vegan, plus other items.
Thank you Seaweed. I like Rodney Habib's videos so will check this one out.
Dogg Canine Nutrition, the plant based dog food company based in Vancouver plans to begin commercial production of their 100% plant based vegan dog food by Winter 2017. http://www.joindogg.com/
I am aware that some believe that it is appropriate to feed dogs a vegetarian/vegan diet.
I am mindful that humans get most benefit from fresh (not processed) veg......the alleged starch/sugar levels in some dried processed foods of this type rule this that type of vegan dog food out for me presently.
Despite currently having a vegan family member in the household I currently lack the confidence to correctly & safely source prepare & feed a cost effective suitably balanced d.i.y. vegan dog food diet.
The DOGG brand link has raised my interest as they claim to be launching a fresh plant based food. As stated the company is infancy & not selling food yet.....also only initially planned for sale in a specific area of Canada.
I will do some more research & keep an open mind in this area.
Like you Coaster, I have an open mind and as vegan, vegetarian products very slowly come on the market the more we will learn.
Very interesting topic at the moment. I recently have stopped eating meat but I would never want to put my choices onto my dog. It is my belief however that dogs can survive/thrive on vegetarian diets. One of the downfalls though about a veg diet is that veg protein sources are often poor sources of specific essential vitamins and fatty acids. Therefore, when choosing a veg diet they must be appropriately formulated and balanced, including proper sources of amino acids.
An article "Can Dogs Be Vegetarians?" from Dogs Naturally magazine. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/can-dogs-be-vegetarians/
Interesting article, thanks for posting Seaweed.
Will the Los Angeles Animal Services change to a vegan diet? http://truthaboutpetfood.com/los-angeles-shelter-dogs-to-go-vegan/
I just want to tell my experience , my four dogs have been eating vegetarian/vegan food in the last 6 months and I am really impressed as they are doing really well. They enjoy their meals and they look as good as ever (they were in cold pressed food and raw meat before). They eat Yarrah and Veggiedog kibbles but also supplement with seeds(chia, flax, hemp) and with vegetables (sweet potato, pumpkin, beans, etc) and fruit.
OFS, thank you for letting us know, thats really interesting, it's good to hear your dogs are enjoying their food, please do let us know how things are going over the months ahead.
Thanks Seaweed and congratualtions for this thread . I never thought that my dogs ever consider not eating meat but we did a slow transition and now they love their food.
Another article that you could find interesting http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/vegan_dogs (http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/vegan_dogs)
Thanks for your input ofs. it is really useful for you to share your experiences. As seaweed says it would be great if you can continue updating about how your dogs are doing on their diet as time goes on.
An article by v-dog, the vegan dog food company regarding the Los Angeles Animal Services considering a vegan diet, it seems a decision is to be made in February.
I found an interesting article from what I think it is an independent and objective opinion about the topic http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/07/vegan-dogs-a-healthy-lifestyle-or-going-against-nature/ (http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/07/vegan-dogs-a-healthy-lifestyle-or-going-against-nature/)
Thanks for the link OFS, I will have a look. You will be interested to know that there is some interesting news on the vegan dog food front, Lukullus have launched a 100% vegan cold pressed dog food called Lukullus "Veggie."
Available in 5 kg, shelf life 8 months, from Zooplus http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/pet_supplies_specials/new_products/dog_food_treats/dry_food/655098#ingredients
49% vegetable mix (dried, ground peas, dried, ground carrots, beetroot, parsnip, leek, celery, chicory), 21% sweet lupin (dried, ground), hemp (dried, ground), corn germ, 5% linseed, 5% oil mix (rapeseed, nut, wheat germ), 5% fruit mix (apples, pears, blackcurrants, aronia berries, rose hips, blueberries), beet pulp, algae mix (ascophyllum nodosum, schizochytrium), 2% milk thisle seeds, 1% herbs (dried), mineral clay, silica (diatomaceous earth), yucca schidigera (dried, ground)
Thanks Seaweed. I have already ordered 20 kg of Lukullus Veggie for my dogs; itś really good to have good options in the market as I have always had my preferences on cold pressed food for dogs
OFS would you be so kind as to give us some feedback on Lukullus Veggie once you have used it over a period of time.
OFS would you be so kind as to give us some feedback on Lukullus Veggie once you have used it over a period of time.Yes, of course
I will look forward to hearing how you get on with this ofs.
An article "Dogs can get by just fine on a vegetarian diet" from the Los Angeles Times, relating to a proposal for the Los Angeles Animal Services to change over to a plant based diet.
Raw feeder Kimberly Gauthier of Keep the Tail Wagging® talks to vet Armaiti May, DVM (vegan) which touches on The Los Angeles Animal Services shelter.
Can a Dog Thrive on a Vegan Diet? (Kimberly Gauthier)
An interesting video by Susan Pitcairn https://youtu.be/UAlNSJGgQhU (https://youtu.be/UAlNSJGgQhU)
Vegan diets for dogs is on the rise.
Another article http://www.wildearthpets.com/blog/you-can-feed-your-dog-meat-free (http://www.wildearthpets.com/blog/you-can-feed-your-dog-meat-free)
Interesting news on the vegan dog food front, V-Dog the vegan dog food company based in San Francisco has announced it's going international.
Good to see more vegan dog food! Both me and my daughter are vegans, my dogs do get a meat based diet, Lukkullus cold pressed, and I have slowly introduced the veggie option from Lukkullus. Dogs love it!
Two reasons why my dogs are not completely vegan is price and choice. Not a lot of choice with regards to vegan dogfood, and the ones that are out there are pricey! With three Rottweilers, price is also important and I try to give them the best in food where I can.
Where people have been talking about choice and whether or not their dog would choose vegan or meat based :) One of mine refuses to eat chicken. Bit of chicken in one hand, vegan sausage in other hand , he will go for the vegan option :)
I do have a few friends whose dogs are completely vegan and they look brilliant, no health issues. I find, when you follow a certain lifestyle, you make sure you get all you need from that, and that works for dogs as well. You cant just decide to feed your dog vegan and think that that is it. You need to carefully look at the food and ensure they get all their nutritional and dietary needs.
Thanks for posting louwra, yes there is a lack of choice in vegan foods. Their seems to be growing demand for these products. The vegan V-Planet dog food (V-dog) are working on their international expansion so may well come to the UK, which will give a further option. If I hear anything I will post.
I often go to Vegan festivals/markets etc, and I noticed more people setting up a stall for dogs with vegan food and treats, which is nice! Takes a while to read all the small print :) but generally these are pretty good
It's nice to see more choice!
Virchew, formerly Dogg (Vancouver), 100% plant-based food, not kibble or canned have a new website setting out their plans.
Not kibble, not canned so I am wondering if it is dehydrated. Also wondering about trials. Might have missed it but could not see anything on the website.
Dottie. the old DOGG website is still available. I can't remember how many trials there have been. It does mention a trial here.
Before they were called DOGG, they were called Indogo, here is an article, podcast from that time where it is mentioned their intention is to have dehydrated foods.
I will contact Virchew for clarification.
I have heard back from Virchew with a very nice email "Our foods are a unique 'dry blend' that our customers rehydrate. Some of the ingredients are dehydrated, some are cooked but dried, some are raw but dried, and some such as chickpea flour, is cooked through an infrared process.
Although we're still working on many of our formulations along with our Board Certified Veterinary Nutritionist and vet nutrition consultants, the ingredients that we've used to date in our trials and samples, are nutritious foods such as:"
85% pea protein
oatmeal (certified gluten-free)
Looks like there is to be a "Plant-Based Dog Food Health Study" studying the effects of two dog food brands, V-Dog and Halo vegan dog foods.
Thanks for the link Seaweed. I have to say, despite now being fully committed to veganism myself, I am too worried that it might not be the best diet for my dog to change her food. :(
Scientists say vegan food can be healthy for pets. https://www.nzgeo.com/audio/scientists-say-vegan-food-can-be-healthy-for-pets/
The Plant-Powered Dog Food Summit is FREE and online from March 12 – 19, 2019.
Vet, Dr Judy Morgan, Vegan Pets – To Be or Not to Be? https://www.drjudymorgan.com/vegan-pets-to-be-or-not-to-be/