All About Dog Food Forum

Dog food and feeding => Dog foods => Topic started by: Meg on Sep 21, 2017, 22:44

Title: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 21, 2017, 22:44
It got my mind ticking over, after one of those particularly tiring days.... :-[ ........that is, the 'lugging around' of multiple bags, packages and cans of various sizes of dog food; and this following on with locating suitable storage areas of the said aforementioned... Phew! 

Yes,  there is no doubt that part of this fairly frequent (and at times fatiguing) scenario may surely be eased, simply by ordering directly from the manufacturers and waiting until the food is delivered. And yet too at the same time I'm happy to support our local pet stores.

Aside from storing dog food correctly,  It simply seems at times that it's the actual weight of the food that is the annoyance, the bugbear if you like.  As expected though food in smaller volumes equates to an accepted greater wasting of packaging; obversely, it's fairly commonplace that greater volume often equates to financial savings in the long run.

That said, however, buying a greater volume may not prove to be cost effective if the result is leftover unused food. Some examples include feeding a dog who begins to dislike the food, or feeding a food that begins to disagree with a dog! Though this same train of thought may be attributed to any food regardless of volume, one might expect the loss of revenue to be greater as the degree of volume increases....

There are different reasons for sure as to why we buy the volume/sizes of dog food that we do. One such reason to consider may be the storage space available. And of consideration too is the type of storage available. Further considerations to ask are whether a larger amount of food keeps as fresh as one might hope?

Optimistically, there's an opportunity to voice our wishes, a possibility to further influence manufacturers to offer healthy dog foods at a cost effective price whilst taking into account valid views of consumers on the forum!

So to all - and of course those who may prefer a particular size/weight/volume of dog food to feed their dogs - here's the opening post asking what 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Dottie on Sep 22, 2017, 13:48
A good subject and one which I have thought about a lot in the past. I have bought in bulk online to save money and delivery charges but TBH I am not keen on stockpiling food.  I do have storage facilities and it is not the outlay cost wise but I just don't care for having lots of food about the place, particularly with dry products. I'm keen on having a fresh supply. Having large amounts of food in stock has been problematic if I have wanted to change their diet because it can be ages before they finish it. 

TBH if I could buy my supplies from a local pet supply store then I would but unfortunately the nearest shop that stocks the food that I use is about 16 miles away via busy roads so it is really not cost effective and is quite inconvenient.  It would save me a fair bit of money to buy big bags but I am resigned to paying more for the 5kg size + £3.50p delivery.  It is good to have it delivered to the door and as cold pressed food has a limited shelf life it means that the dogs can have a fresh supply with a long sell by date about every six weeks.  The dogs do very well on the food and I consider it is a good price for a quality product so I just pay the extra. It makes me feel better psychologically as they are having fresh stock. Also, the bags are not too heavy for me.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 22, 2017, 16:09
..as cold pressed food has a limited shelf life...

This doesn't apply to all pressed foods ;)

Relatively recently Prins had a breakthrough moment with the manufacturer of their packaging and thanks to a special way in which the they seal their bags they've been able to increase their shelf life to 18 months from the standard 6 months.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 22, 2017, 16:36
My preference is firstly for the fresher the food the better,  with minimal, if any, packaging. Also for plenty of varieties in types of foods across the whole range of processing methods. Yes of necessity  feeding is across the gamut of foods that are available, including raw, cold pressed, air-dried, fresh, extruded, tins, semi-moist, pouches and so on..

 I'm guilty too of setting the bar high as I also want a decent food for my financial outlay! This is where David's lowest cost slider plus higher scoring food in the allaboutdogfood Dog Food Directory comes in especially useful. Then following up the results by scrutinising those invaluable nutrient dials.

 And like you Dottie I too do not like stockpiling pet food.   And this is one reason I don't require a long shelf life, as for mine, anything over several months is a rather 'superfluous' bonus and I'd rather feed food with as little preservative as possible.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 23, 2017, 00:14
Relatively recently Prins had a breakthrough moment with the manufacturer of their packaging and thanks to a special way in which the they seal their bags they've been able to increase their shelf life to 18 months from the standard 6 months.

 
Thank you for letting us know as this is good news for anyone who needs a pet food which has that longer shelf life. I'm hopefully assuming this will not involve extra preservatives within the food itself. And should there be increase in the amount of packaging please let it be recyclable...
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 23, 2017, 00:52
Relatively recently Prins had a breakthrough moment with the manufacturer of their packaging and thanks to a special way in which the they seal their bags they've been able to increase their shelf life to 18 months from the standard 6 months.

 
Thank you for letting us know as this is good news for anyone who needs a pet food which has that longer shelf life. I'm hopefully assuming this will not involve extra preservatives within the food itself. And should there be increase in the amount of packaging please let it be recyclable...

Hi Meg. No, there's no added preservatives (all Prins foods are 100% natural) nor any extra packaging - I'd be lying if I said I know the technicalities around it but the breakthrough was purely around the technique used to seal the packaging.

On the environmental side of your post - I'm sure you're aware of the benefits of pressed food over extruded food in regards to packaging but sustainability and the environment is a very big issue for Prins:

https://www.prinspetfoods.com/discover-prins/about-prins/we-promote-sustainability

Prior to partnering with Prins one of their directors came over to the UK to meet us and must have noticed that I was always drinking bottled water because on my subsequent visit to Prins I was given 2 of Prins' recycled plastic bottles and told to stop buying bottled water  ;D
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 23, 2017, 22:27
Thank you Carra-Pet Foods. I've had a look at the linked webpage and I'm confused and hopeful of a clearer understanding of the packaging. Websites can sometimes appear to be offering differing information and this may be simply due to an area of coding being out-of-step with another on a different webpage.

I'm wondering if that is the case here: Empty pet food bags (https://www.prinspetfoods.com/discover-prins/about-prins/where-do-empty-prins-bags-belong) has the text:
"Our packaging consists of three different (plastic) layers,..." and also another heading reads "Plastic barrier layer" which leads to further information.

sustainability (https://www.prinspetfoods.com/discover-prins/about-prins/we-promote-sustainability) has "....does no longer use plastics, but paper bags instead...."

Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 23, 2017, 22:43
Hi Meg. I suspect it's just an error in translation. I will double check this with Prins tomorrow and get back to you.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 24, 2017, 00:50
Thanks and appreciated.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 24, 2017, 22:07
Ok, I've spoke with Prins and got clarification on the issue raised above. The comment regarding no longer using plastic bags is referring to carrier bags, not the packaging for the food.

So in summary, Prins no longer use any plastic carrier bags and these have been replaced with paper bags. The packaging of the food is the 3 layered plastic mentioned above - this is fully recyclable.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 24, 2017, 23:38
Yes understood.  ;)

Thank you, as a fan of cold pressed foods - one of several diets I feed -  and as a believer in the least packaging the better(!) it's good to hear a company is making an effort with packaging,  ensuring it's fully recyclable, and that plastic bags (which were used) are no longer being used.
 
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Red_Akita on Sep 25, 2017, 09:47
Having only one dog of a fairly large size, I have to say this is not a big problem for me.
I'm currently feeding Aatu and the 10kg bag lasts about a month and a half, which isn't a ridiculously long time.
I'd love to support local stores but to be honest the online prices are far too competitive, sometimes £20 cheaper or more!
About the storage, I'd like to point out that Aatu has recently changed their packaging: their bags used to have a ziplock seal, which I found great to keep the product fresh. In the past couple of months they moved to a velcro strip, probably in an attempt to cut costs... I'm not a fan of this change, but most other kibble bags come with no seal at all so this is still better than average.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Dottie on Sep 25, 2017, 13:34
The food that I use has a Velcro fastener too but I don't completely trust it. I therefore fold the top over and secure it with a metal foldback clip. The bag is paper and supposed to be recyclable. I sometimes use Forthglade bought from Morrisons (particularly when on offer) but wet products do create more waste so that is a concern. I understand that the trays are recyclable though. The sleeve is cardboard so can go in the paper skip. Don't know about the plastic sheet that is used to seal the trays.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 25, 2017, 16:56
If we can prompt and encourage a pet food manufacturer to consider the impact and effect of their packaging, even over a few posts, then this thread is demonstrating it's worth,  as it sounds like packaging plays a fairly large role per se!

 [And of course it makes sense as we'd want the food to be fresh, and remain fresh, (without boosting preservatives) and if we can reduce the amount of packaging that would be ideal. And if the packaging can be recycled so much the better  8)].
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 25, 2017, 17:17
When attempting to open the plastic film sheet from the top of a tray of meat, including pet food, there are frequent occasions when those clingier, (determined-to-stay-where-they-are-despite-intervention-from self-and-others)  'bits' of plastic remain stubbonly in situ, just don't budge. ::)  There seems little choice but to recycle these with the remaining tray.

However, what to do with the plastic-ky black backing that invariably sits underneath raw meat ....does anyone know if these may be recycled or not?
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Tinyplanets on Sep 25, 2017, 18:27
I have one small dog and when I fed nutriment solely, the 500g tub was fine and lasted 3 days. Now she has a bit less due to being less active and older. I also add some home cooked or she has the odd home cooked meal. The smaller packs work out more expensive so I cut the packs in half when only slightly softened and put half back in the freezer.

I was frustrated for a long time that the cold pressed only came in 5 kg packs. I don't feed it solely and it has a six month shelf life. The lukullus one comes in smaller 2 kg packs so that is the one I get now. I sometimes split a pack of the other cold pressed foods if anyone is happy to do so but otherwise the size of pack is the primary consideration.  I prefer the paper packaging of other cold pressed but can't justify the waste of food a 5kg bag would be.  The nutriment comes in polystyrene boxes to keep it cold but we use these for cool boxes when going away in the caravan, planters for veg, and storage for OH's vast collection of Leicester city programmes!
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 25, 2017, 22:42
I have one small dog .......I was frustrated for a long time that the cold pressed only came in 5 kg packs......The lukullus one comes in smaller 2 kg packs so that is the one I get now.


Yes that's a good point Tinyplanets. Over the last few years there have been predictions that households will continue a trend towards owning smaller dogs. Regardless, smaller dogs surely ought to be adequately catered for nowadays and so hopefully others will follow suit and take the opportunity to supply cold pressed in smaller quantities.

 
Quote
.... polystyrene boxes to keep it cold but we use these for cool boxes when going away in the caravan, planters for veg, and storage for OH's vast collection of Leicester city programmes!
   ;)

.....and broken up for drainage in the base of pots prior to the soil going in....... and for overwintering dahlia tubers packed in sand ..... and comfy mini storerooms for gluts of cooking apples until preparation time pre freezing.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Tinyplanets on Sep 26, 2017, 07:18
I never thought of apple storage. OH has just pureed a load. Now I am not sure where we are going to fit the next batch of nutriment!
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: COASTER on Sep 26, 2017, 18:38
Consumer needs will vary depending on a number of obvious factors, including........

Daily feed amount

Storage space & storage environment suitability

Budget

Collection or delivery choice (based on convenience & associated costs)

Spoiling prior to use (mites, damp or best before date expiry)

Any concerns re storage materials & packaging (recycling, hygienic resealing, ease of dispensing).

Desire to switch between products


Ideally brands could cater for all above by offering varied size choices, in ethical yet practical packaging without causing unreasonable cost penalties against those who buy smaller amounts, (a tough call as many sellers attempt to financially incentify  customers to source  more food per purchase).


One cap does not fit all so manufacturers have to pass on costs &/or streamline choice(s)  to cater for the most likely customer need.

Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 27, 2017, 10:39

Coaster yes by no means are businesses charities, yet they cannot operate without revenue from their consumers, and we have an opportunity here to make a difference don't you think?

And if we can make a difference by the written page surely it is worth pursuing to help plug the gaps that are currently being overlooked.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: COASTER on Sep 28, 2017, 18:13
I wholeheartedly agree that more packaging &/or size  variety choice(s) would be good but suspect many companies may be reluctant to offer same unless confident they can do so without reduction in profit(s).

I for one appreciate positive changes. I am currently feeding a raw complete product due to the manufacturer recently deciding to supply 500g trays in place of 500g chubbs.

I also like to see 1kg raw complete trays when the cost per kg is lower than the cost of 2 x 500g trays of same product & believe that one brand might be allegedly chosen over others because of this.



Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 29, 2017, 14:32
I wholeheartedly agree that more packaging &/or size  variety choice(s) would be good but suspect many companies may be reluctant to offer same unless confident they can do so without reduction in profit(s).

It's this balancing act that will determine whether these changes can or will be made.

Over recent years we've seen a growth in the number of smaller private label pet food companies. The manufacturers of the food for these companies will have minimum order amounts for each food and bag weight - obviously the larger the production run, the cheaper per kg or bag it becomes. Even if you were producing 1000's of kg's of smaller sized bags, the cost per kg will still be far in excess of 12 or 15kg bags due to the additional time and labour involved. We've recently seen the announcement from Forthglade regarding their expansion plans yet despite all the above, they'll still be outsourcing the production of their pressed food because the cost of production is far too high unless you're producing millions of kg's of food.

You then have packaging - to have even a basic branded packaging you're required to order in the region of 10,000 units of each size to get a reasonable price. For more specialist, environmentally friendly packaging, you'll need to be ordering far in excess of these numbers to receive a cost effective price.

Partnering with Prins rather than producing a private label, we don't have the same issues as above. Prins are a very well established company in the Netherlands selling large quantities of pressed food - as a result they're able to offer 3, 12, 15 and even 20kg bags of food all within fully recyclable packaging. However we still face probably the biggest issue which is delivery. The cost of shipping smaller 3kg packages is not a great deal cheaper than shipping a 15kg package and as a result there is very little profit when shipping direct to the consumer. Given the other issues above that private label companies face, this is probably why they do not offer 2 or 3kg packages -  they simply cannot make it work financially.
Title: Re: Dogs come in all shapes 'n' sizes! What 'size' of dog food do you want to feed??
Post by: Meg on Sep 29, 2017, 19:49
I feel it's fair to say that there are pet food companies that have charged what seems exorbitant  prices :o  for their products, and once other manufacturers notice that those same products are selling, they logically follow suit resulting in healthy price competitiveness to the benefit of the consumer.

  Historically, where profitable margins are made, there are really no obvious reasons, why in the future, the same pattern would not occur again,  this time for example smaller volumes, with minimal (recyclable) packaging, that we are currently discussing  ;),  - and notably are already being sold by other manufacturers  -   being replicated by other companies.

I'd like to suggest that manufacturers duly consider the needs of their current (and potential) customers and make subsequent appropriate changes, even taking a possible short-term lower profit, in order to build a greater consumer base with accompanying expected profit margins throughout, including more obviously in the larger volumes sold.

Indeed surely it makes sense that some profit is better than none; and in my experience happier customers invariably lead to better client/business relationships, a better overall business reputation and also opens business opportunities to greater future sales.