All About Dog Food Forum
Dog food and feeding => Dog foods => Topic started by: Lottie on Jul 30, 2018, 10:31
I am currently raw feeding my two Shih Tzu's and have done for more than 6 years. But my eldest Mali is 11 years old and frequently scratching. There is no evidence of any thing causing it . My other one Tasha is almost 10 years old and seems to be chewing her paws and licking. These are all things I don't really expect being raw fed. I am thinking now it is time for a change and was thinking of Canagan . Does anyone feed their dogs Canagan or have any views on it. I did try them a couple of years ago with Eden , they liked it but their bottoms did't and I was told it was too high in protein being around 40% . Canagan being 33% . I don't want the trouble I had with Eden as it took weeks to get them back to normal. So if anyone have any views tI would appreciate it very much.
Also any views from those who have changed from raw to kibble that could also be welcome. Thank you in advance.
This is most odd because raw food is reputedly good for coat and skin. I am tempted to think that as they are both experiencing problems it could be due to an external factor, not food.
I note that you live in Wales. I have a friend who lives there too, not far from the coast. Her little dog has this problem every year in the summer/early autumn. It is due to mites that she picks up on walks, particularly on the dunes. Not sure, but I think they are called harvest mites. (https://www.myitchydog.co.uk/blog/harvest-mites.html) I have another friend who lives in West Sussex and her dogs have the same issues at the same time of year. She tells me that the area is quite chalky.
Anyway, both struggle with treatment for this seasonal itching. Wales friend currently uses Malaseb regularly and takes the dog to the vet for antibiotics because the scratching causes bacterial infection which makes the dog itch/scratch more. She also puts a collar on as necessary to stop the dog scratching. Think she also tried Leucillin spray but can’t remember if it worked. Before changing food it might be best to have a skin scraping done by the vet and to start a course of treatment.
On the subject of Canagan, they seem to be a good range of foods with mid range protein levels. I gave it to my dogs once or twice but it was a long time ago. They were ok with it but it was not suitable because they are dogs who put weight on easily and they gained quite quickly, despite giving much below the RDA. Not the fault of the food - fat and protein simply too high for my dogs.
Welcome Lottie. When you say you are feeding raw is this a raw complete with added vegetables perhaps with seeds, and oils etc or meat alone. I had a dog who would scratch when this was added but it stopped immediately he had complete meat and bone with out the extra's. As Dottie say's it is unusual as they are both affected in some way, so it may well be other factors are involved.
Thank you Seaweed, at the moment and for the last 6/7 weeks they have been on DIY using Raw Factory minces , MVM dinners and minces And Easy Raw from Raw Pets Supplies in Cardiff. Before that they were on Wolftucker which indeed have vegetables added. To be fair Mali has always scratched a little and of course it could be down to the weather and we have also thought it could be habitual too. I also only use natural shampoo's when they are washed.
I thought of trying them with Canagan as it is lower in Protein percentage than Eden or Orijen and one reviewer said it had stopped their dog scratching. Whether I should finish the raw I have left and then go on to Canagan or other or feed raw in am and kibble at night until the raw has gone.
Have you tried Yumega Itchy Dog supplement? We had a dog who suffered dreadfully with unexplained itching and adding this to his food really helped.
Thank you Petmum I have tried it for quite a while but didn't seem to do much for her. Which is what makes me think it could be habitual. as when she gets up in the morning she straightaway has to have a scratch. I do appreciate your help thank you.
If you do try the Canagan it might be best to wean them onto it at separate servings. I tend to do it with smaller, more frequent meals until fully transitioned. There is no reason why raw and kibble can’t be mixed (we have a thread about this somewhere on the forum) but I feel that it is better to give different types of food at individual meals. However, if the dog has a robust digestion then you could transition a bit more speedily. As you haven’t fed kibble for a long time, remember that the RDAs are often over generous, particularly when it comes to small breeds.
It would be interesting to know how you get on with the experiment.
You indicate that up until 6/7 weeks ago you were feeding wolftucker and have since changed to DIY raw feeding using DIY raw suppliers.
Whilst you indicate one of the TWO dogs has always scratched a littlle.
How were BOTH dogs body condition ,coat, skin & overall health when on the wolftucker ?
What protein source(s) wolftucker were you feeding ?
What protein source are you feeding now ?
Any supplements now or previously ?
Any regular flea or other treatments ?
Have you thoroughly checked skin on both dogs for parasites/mites/fleas ticks ?
Assuming dogs were relatively ok on previous diet I would reintroduce it for 3 weeks and monitor.....this is assuming no likely infestation.
If itching persists then it might not be diet related....in which case then treat it and monitor......
I would use a decent ideally organic or low chemical shampoo a few times and then treat coat with diatomaceous earth, (DE) . If wanting to add it to diet I would source human grade DE. You can also use DE on household areas where mites may live....(personally I would bin any carpet/bedding if contaminated).
I appreciate I may be suggesting a backward step but ideally I woukd want to identify what factor(s) caused deterioration.
As with any assesment diagnosis and treatment regime, try to focus on one thing at a time.....otherwise you wont isolate the cause &/or deal with it properly.
My dog tends to have seasonal problems with her paws. I am sure it isn't her food as she is only affected during the summer months. Generally if I wash her paws after a walk and if they start to bother her bathe them in a solution of hibiscrub and water and give her anti histamine for a few days, they calm down.
Coaster makes some very useful and valid points. These problems need to be approached systematically to identify the culprit.
It is very common for people to blame food for itching and it sometimes is the case. One of my dogs had a skin problem that was definitely affected by certain ingredients but luckily she is much better now because I changed her to cold pressed food a few years ago and this contained none of those unwanted ingredients. However, itching is often not food related. My Welsh friend blamed food and swapped from this to that with no real improvement. The dog now gets a better diet which suits but it did not have any effect on the itch because it was due to these horrible mites.
Having said all this, I have the feeling (maybe wrongly) that you are wanting to change from raw to kibble. If this is the case then give it a go because then you will know for sure and it will satisfy your curiosity. If it works, all well and good. Please let us know how you get on.
Thank you so much everyone for your very valuable input. It is very heartening to have such a warm response to my query.
I hadn't known about cold pressed food until fairly recently when I ;looked at changing Mali & Tasha's food. I think I will look into it a bit more before I make a decision.
I remember looking at Forthglade Cold pressed food but was a bit worried that they include Beet Pulp in the food and I know that is a filler. I have not really heard of the other makes until recently.
Many of the cold pressed foods contain a small amount of beet (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-ingredients/0034/sugar-beet) so as you are not keen on this, they might not be suitable. However, have a look at our cold pressed food thread because I haven’t checked them all. Using the filters on the Dog Food Directory you can exclude sugar beet under ‘Avoid Ingredients’. If the other ingredients are what I want, I am not concerned about a tiny percentage of beet. It is a good source of fibre.
Hi Dottie I have had a look at Cold Pressed on here and was just about settled on Gentle until I realised both small bite recipes contain brown rice. I have always avoided grain because I think it could be that that causes the itching. So I shall look at the other brands again. It really is a minefield out there. But thank you again.
I think Guru’s Full on Feast could be an option for you should you want to try cold pressed as it does not contain rice nor, I believe, does it have beet pulp in the recipe. Might be worth a look?
Thank you Coaster and answer your questions.
Initially the reason I decided to do DIY was that since Mali was put on medication for her heart problem it was going to cost £30 a month for the meds so as a pensioner I couldn't afford to do completes and the meds but wanted to keep them on raw. since then I now have a prescription to buy meds online for a third of the price.
Tasha hardly ever itches or scratches so I do think it is a problem just with Mali. I will take on board your suggestion of DE on their food. They are wormed regularly and Flea treated.
Unfortunately our house is mostly carpeted but regularly vacuumed & cleaned, and their beds are regularly washed easily as they are Wolfy Beds, and the girls washed with natural shampoo.
Mali has always suffered from Hotspots but unusually this year less so. Tasha never had a Hotspot
To be honest nothing has changed since doing DIY. Their coats are lovely, pooh's no problem, they don't have any supplements.
I am going to look into Cold Pressed food and see if that helps
The food sources they had with Wolftucker are the same as with the DIY sources, Chicken, turkey, beef tripe with the small exception of lamb in DIY ( there was only a couple of tubes of lamb).
The photo's are Mali on our lawn and Tasha we are lucky they have 1/3 acre of garden to run around in.
Tribal tlc and Cobbydog are both grain free but contain beet. The only one I can think of at the moment that meets your criteria is Guru Full on Feast (https://www.gurupetfood.com/product/full-on-feast-14kg/) which has already been mentioned. If you examine the recipe you will see that is contains four oils - they may be useful for your dog's skin problem. Cold pressed foods are reputed to fit in well with raw feeding so you shouldn't have much of a problem transitioning. However, it is best to be cautious and if you do decide to use one of these products, have a look at the guidelines on the Guru website. It is advisable to weigh the food, at least until you are used to it. This is because it is dense, therefore it is easy to overfeed. Be aware that the quantity will look very small compared to raw and kibble.