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Dog food and feeding => Dog foods => Topic started by: dieseldog on Oct 03, 2014, 19:49

Title: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: dieseldog on Oct 03, 2014, 19:49
just received this today first time i have tried it got a very good deal on it got 2 sacks 15kg for £48 including delivery which will last me around 2 months with the use by date isn't till Feb next year should be fine for freshness 
the food its self would suite the larger breeds when it comes to the size of the pieces and if diesel was reviewing it for taste he would give it 11 out of 10 [forgive him hes not good with numbers  when he gets excited ] will have to give him daily amount in to 4 portions till he stops wolfing it down 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: Tinyplanets on Oct 04, 2014, 10:37
I also fed this to my 6kg terrier without any problems. She is also a speed eater. I found it helpful to soften some with water and freeze in a kong to slow her down but she also managed the big pieces okay.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: Dottie on Oct 04, 2014, 11:22
I haven't seen or used Markus-Mühle but I have  used Gentle which is made at the same plant.  I am still giving Gentle in the way that Tinyplanets describes and also as training treats. I really like cold pressed food and mine did well on Gentle.  It was just the weight control that was the problem.  Anyway, you certainly got a bargain there.  I got a similar one because the sell by date was close. I managed to nearly use it all up before it reached the date. If MM is like Gentle, I assume that it is heavy so are you weighing it out?  I found that I really needed to as I am no good at guessing.  The amount was so tiny though - I used to feel sorry for the poor Cairns.   :(   Glad your dog is enjoying the food and hope he does well on it.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: dieseldog on Oct 04, 2014, 19:11
i always weigh the food each day anyway as i bought some digital scales just for this purpose if the kibble was smaller it probably would be OK to fill  a jug to a level were you know is the correct weight but not sure if it would be as accurate with the larger kibble
I'm not sure if they do a smaller kibble which could be one of the problems what put owners off who have smaller breeds which is a shame
 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: chrishordley on Oct 06, 2014, 16:43
I usually feed five dogs so weighing is crucial and I am sure that guestimating Is a factor in the overweight dogs problem as manufacturers don't make it easy. I have fed MM for a couple of months alongside raw although as separate meals. It is easy to snap the pieces into sections but what interested me as much as this cold pressed idea, was that although a little less in calories than the 3900 kcal which is pretty standard, they recommend feeding a little less . My only problem is I don't like feeding the same starch source month in and month out. Both MM and Gentle are rice based and it is perfectly possible for dogs to develop intolerance to rice. I am feeding a bag of Ancestral Canine potato based but will return to cold pressed as I have just suddenly lost another middle aged dog with unsuspected lymphoma. He was a rescue and quite likely fed on cheap kibble before.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: Psychedelic on Oct 20, 2014, 17:19
Just thought I'd ask another question about Markus Muhle, as I am looking for yet another food to try Roger on as he is still having some sloppy poos and not maintaining his weight terribly well.

So, I'm fairly sure his issues are down to corn, but as this food is cold pressed, does anyone know if this would change the reaction his gut would have to it?

My initial thought is just to steer clear, it's just a shame as so many people seem to have had such good experiences with it.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: Dottie on Oct 20, 2014, 17:36
Sorry that I can't help you with the question about  the corn content in MM.  Did you check out Gentle which is the same sort of product but has a corn-free recipe?  When my lot were on it their poos were perfect - never been better in fact.   
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: Psychedelic on Oct 20, 2014, 18:03
I'll have a look at it. Thanks. :D
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: Tinyplanets on Oct 20, 2014, 18:56
There is also Black Angus by Markus Muhle. I believe that doesn't have corn in and uses brown rice. It is cheaper than Gentle but more expensive than Markus Muhle. It is also a smaller sized kibble. It smells very similar to the others and produced good firm poos.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: Psychedelic on Oct 20, 2014, 20:55
Thanks for that one, will investigate further.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: lurch64 on Oct 23, 2014, 09:32
Hi Deisledog, I use MM and have just received a delivery of my regular 2 sacks. I'd be very interested to know where you ordered yours from at that fab price :-)
I feed mostly RAW but use MM as a back up if I run out of time or forget to get the meat out of the freezer. It's the only one I trust really... I have started on the Black Angus Junior at the min  as I have a litter of pups
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: Dottie on Oct 23, 2014, 16:22
Hopefully Dieseldog will be along to answer that question.  If not, you could send a private message if you like. As you say, it is a good price.  I checked on Zooplus and they have an offer of an extra 1.5kg free - that is here (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/markus_muehle/301733).  I may be wrong but it looks like what used to be called just Markus Muhle now has NaturNah in the title.  Black Angus (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/esearch.htm#q%3DMarkus%2520M%25C3%25BChle%26catl%3D4%26cats%3D1Dog%257C2Dry%2520Dog%2520Food%257C3Markus%2520M%25C3%25BChle) is on offer on the Zooplus website too.  It's unusual to see a dog food containing beef.
They are both considerably cheaper than the one I buy (Gentle).  I can't see why because the ingredients aren't so different and they are the same company although Gentle is said to be British, according to the review in the food directory.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle
Post by: lurch64 on Oct 23, 2014, 16:41
Yes its beef duck and herring ;-) I paid £79 to 2 sacks

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Oct 24, 2014, 10:53
I have just amended the title of this thread slightly because I thought it would be useful to have a designated cold pressed food thread (of which Markus Muhle is the main one).   Scampers website has an explanation of the cold press process here (http://www.scampers.co.uk/gentle-cold-pressed-dog-food.asp).

I am open to correction on this, but as I understand it, there are probably only about a handful of brands that are cold pressed. The ones that I know of are:
Markus Muhle NaturNah (http://www.markus-muehle.de/en/) - just one variety
Markus Muhle Black Angus - I cannot find a separate website for this but there are several lifestage varieties on Zooplus
here (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/markus_muehle)
Gentle (http://www.gentledogfood.co.uk/) - one type only (for all lifestages).
Lupo (http://luponatural.de/home/?en/productcn)
Lukullus - again, I can only supply the Zooplus link
here (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/lukullus). There are several different varieties.
Farmfood HE (http://www.farmfood.co.uk/dogfood/premium-quality/natural-holistic/why_cold_pressed_dogfoods.html)
There may be more so if anyone comes across something, please update this thread.

They mostly come in 5kg or 15kg bags.  2kg ones would be more suitable for owners of small breed dogs, particularly as the amount needed is less.  Also, paying out for 5kg can be quite expensive if the dog doesn't take to it.  I don't know why some of the  companies have not thought of this. For the scores on the dog food directory of this website, see individual products. Some of them score very highly, particularly Gentle which comes in at 4.8.  These products do not seem to be widely available in retail shops.   For many people this will necessitate online purchase.There are a few companies who are offering cold pressed foods so it shouldn't be too hard to find a product that suits.

I only have experience of using Gentle and it has been a positive one. I chose it because there was nothing in the ingredient list that I didn't want and the fact that it isn't baked/extruded at high temperatures as is kibble.  Also, it is for all lifestages which for me, with three (then four) dogs, all at different ages was very convenient.
 A few observations:
* The product looks and feels a lot different to kibble. The pieces are described as nuggets. I have only seen Gentle but I can say that it smells really nice - a bit like gravy.  I don't know if this is relevant to all, but pet odour seems (to me) to be reduced.
* It is necessary to weigh the food and not to use a cup or mug.  This is because the product is dense and heavy.  There are a few videos on YouTube about cold pressed food and one of them contains an image of 50G of kibble compared with 50G of Gentle.  There is considerably less of the latter. 
* The product has limited shelf life (IIRC it is about six months) so it is probably best not to buy too much at once.
* Cost - MM is considerably cheaper then Gentle. I don't know why because the products are all made at the same plant in Germany.  I understand from this website that there isn't one in the UK at the moment.  Gentle is said to be a UK company but seems to have the same person contact details as MM.  I haven't any figures but to me, despite the higher cost of Gentle it seems to have been economical. This is because I bought the 15kg bag and the fact that the feeding amount  is small.
* Effect on dogs: All mine really enjoy the food and have done well on it. Bella's coat was in poor condition and it has helped to improve matters.  Their poo has been perfect - formed but not too bulky.  Unfortunately I have had to reduce the quantity to considerably lower than 1% of body weight due to weight control issues.   I soften Gentle with warm water, put it inside a Kong and freeze it.  This keeps them occupied for some time.

Looking forward to hearing what others have to say about this type of food.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Schnauday on Oct 24, 2014, 12:41
Bellfor Forest brook treat comes up as cold pressed on amazon, and is free delivery. Any body tried this one ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FOREST-BROOK-TREAT-Salmon-pressed/dp/B00M64QENK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414150704&sr=8-1&keywords=cold+pressed+dog+food
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Oct 24, 2014, 14:43
It is (predictably) German and the company website is here (http://www.der-zooexperte.de/).  Seeing that so many cold pressed foods are coming from there, I can't help but wonder why some enterprising soul doesn't set up a plant in this country. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Pegasus on Oct 24, 2014, 16:05
I've tried Gentle samples with our dogs (they liked it) but found the 5kg too expensive and the 15kg too big a risk for our fussy dogs with the relatively short sell by date - it's happened too often where they have tried samples and liked them only to go off them when I open a big bag. We've stocked MM (and Farmfoods HE) in the past but found many owners find their dogs get 'bored' of only one flavour, which may be different if you are adding BARF to the nuggets.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: David on Oct 25, 2014, 10:57
* Cost - MM is considerably cheaper then Gentle. I don't know why because the products are all made at the same plant in Germany.  I understand from this website that there isn't one in the UK at the moment.  Gentle is said to be a UK company but seems to have the same person contact details as MM.

Yes indeed. Beate Rothon has been the UK distributor for Markus Mülhe for a long while and last year she formulated her own recipe, Gentle, which she gets made in the MM factory in Germany. I hope that clears things up.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 29, 2015, 11:49
Having recently been in conversation with someone who has begun to feed her dog with Gentle, I thought it might be useful to update this thread.  The person in question changed food as the dog had a tendency to soft and loose stools.  They had improved on Gentle but were not as firm as she wanted.  I had previously advised her to weigh the food carefully but it has transpired that she has been using a measuring cup which she had for another dog food product.  The dog was therefore being over fed.

These products are dense and when comparing the same weight of cold pressed food with traditional kibble the quantity is less. This can be seen at the beginning of this film (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tT3u6La45Lk) which also demonstrates the difference in absorption of the two types of food.

Measuring these products in mugs, cups or whatever is not recommended.  For anyone who is considering changing to a cold pressed food, it is essential that it is weighed accurately.  The recommended daily allowance is 1% to 1.2% of the dog's body weight for Gentle but obviously this needs to be adjusted in accordance with the dog's needs. I am not sure about the other cold pressed products but I would imagine that it would be the same or similar.  It goes without saying, always check the manufacturer's guidelines.

Link (http://www.petbusinessworld.co.uk/news/feed/new-gentle-dog-food-for-the-uk-market).
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Eden Holistic Pet Foods on Jan 29, 2015, 16:07
Weighing is essential with many of the higher protein foods Dottie, not just cold pressed, and especially with smaller breeds, where a couple of kibbles can make up several percent of the daily allowance.

Not also that some scales only weigh in 5g increments, ideally ou need 1g increments, it has also been seen that different flavours in the same product range can have different densities, so a scoop can hold different amounts based on the flavour.

Weighing also makes it easy to fine tune daily amounts when weight loss or gain is required.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 12, 2015, 16:12
It seems that I have missed a cold pressed dog food.  It is Healthy Dog (http://www.healthydog-food.co.uk/).  At the moment it is not reviewed on the Dog Food Directory. Link (http://www.doghealth.co.uk/collections/healthy-dog-dry-food).
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: FurriesMom112 on Mar 05, 2015, 06:59
Hi. How are you dog's weight on cold pressed food? My dog has an enlarged gallbladder and I'm seeking out a new food. I'm particularly interested in Gentle or Lupo as they seem to meet his health requirements.  He has also experienced a steady weight loss over the past 6 months or so and therefore I am looking for a food which may help maintain his weight  or even help put some on. Would be welcome to hear any experiences with dogs weight on this diet. Thanks
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 05, 2015, 09:22
The recommendation is for 1% to 1.2% if body weight for adult dogs.  However, they do say that it can vary according to the dog's requirements.  For instance, puppies and bitches in whelp or nursing would get a lot more than this. 

From my own experience, two of my dogs have problems with weight control - they easily put it on.  At the 1% of body weight it would be 85g RDA but they only get 65g in the bowl and about another 10g in a Kong so it is below this.  However, I am finding that it works for them.  I have just weighed them this morning and they are holding their weight very steady indeed so I am pleased. 

With your dog needing to put weight on you would probably need to start at the 1.2% of body weight and then monitor weekly.  You can add 10% as needed.  A word of warning though - always weigh the food accurately and don't be surprised if it doesn't look much.  It's very easy to overfeed using cold pressed food.  I'm used to it now but I still feel that it looks a tiny amount in comparison to kibble.  If you are on Facebook check out the Gentle page and there is a photograph of two glass bowls, one containing Gentle and the other kibble.  You will see the difference immediately. 

If you do switch I would be very interested to hear how it goes.  Don't forget that you can always email the company or give them a call for advice.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: FurriesMom112 on Mar 05, 2015, 13:20
Thanks Dottie. Think Harvey would actually prefer a 'smaller' bowl of food. He eats small meals throughout the day and doesn't always finish in one go so a smaller meal might just suit him better.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 05, 2015, 13:42
Mine get the daily allowance divided into three. This particularly suits my little one because like your Harvey, she prefers little meals.  Might be wrong, but for dogs who don't have such a big appetite cold pressed food is maybe something worth considering because of the smaller amount needed.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Greg on Mar 10, 2015, 13:37
In reply to Dottie at the top of the page (Sorry it won't let me quote for some reason) I posed the question  of why a UK business hasn't started manufacturing it here yet at Cruft's to some kibble manufacturers and fears of the sterility of the food seemed to be the answer. What i was told was that because the food isn't cooked at a high temperature for a certain amount of time like in extruding there are worries about salmonella etc, not so much affecting dogs, but if peoples kids etc get hold of the food.

They all did say it's definitely something that will be happening in the future though.

And hi everyone, first post! :)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 10, 2015, 14:22
Welcome to the forum Greg and thank you very much for asking about that and for telling us about it.  I have to say that I had no idea that sterility was an issue.  TBH I have never even thought about it, particularly as there are products for human consumption that are cold pressed. However, they are oils, not meat and fish.  It would be interesting to hear what the company's take is on this.  On the Scampers website there is an article about a visit that the owner made to the manufacturing factory in Germany.  He mentions actually tasting the food himself so I would imagine that if there was any risk that would not have been allowed.   BTW there is an article in the March issue of 'Dogs Today' by the holistic/natural therapy vet Richard Allport.  He talks about diet and mentions Gentle as a good quality, minimally-processed food. It is one of the three that he recommends if the owner cannot, or does not want to feed a raw diet.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Eden Holistic Pet Foods on Mar 10, 2015, 14:32
Which are the other 2 Dottie?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Greg on Mar 10, 2015, 14:54
I was the same Dottie, i hadn't considered it either, one of the companies i spoke to said that they were excited about the idea and that everything looked great in theory but when they looked at the practical side of things those sort of problems started popping up.

I didn't get a chance to go to Farm food's stand because i would have asked them how they get around it, i'm assuming there must be a certain level of cooking at some point to kill bacteria? Or maybe freezing perhaps? would that work?

Also, does anyone know why it won't let me quote? It says i'm not allowed to post external links but all i'm trying to do is quote, the posts i'm trying to quote don't have links in either? 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 10, 2015, 15:35
David - they are ZiwiPeak (he prefers air dried version as it is the least processed) and Orijen - available as a dry food and in a freeze-dried range. 

Greg: I think that FarmFood HE (cold pressed) is made in the Netherlands. The distributor is in fife, Scotland. I don't know why the forum is not allowing quotes.  I  tend not to use them much but when I do I type it myself in brackets and end with the same but / in front of the word quote.  I will leave a message for David about this.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: chrishordley on Mar 11, 2015, 09:39
My guess would be that in order to meet safety standards there would need to be quite an investment in the initial set up of a processing plant which might put people off. The big companies making kibble may be throwing out scare stories too. I am not particularly into conspiracy theories though, so there may be possible problems. I would expect the German and Dutch authorities to have regulation in force to ensure manufacturing is safe.
My only slight concern with cold pressed is the density of the pellet. I foster rescued dogs and my current jrt cross was very underweight with therefore a small tummy and he threw up his first couple of MM meals, he was fine after that but I should have introduced it over a longer period than I did.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Mar 11, 2015, 17:08
I didn't have any of the old kibble left when I changed to MM so a gradual change wasn't possible. However I didn't give more than the recommended amount and we had no problems. Trouble is the recommended amount did look small due to the density and it would have been tempting to add a bit more. Having seen how much it swells when you add water, I can see why too big a potion may be rejected.

Somebody I know has just started her older dog with hit and miss appetite on Gentle. The smaller potions are good for her as she can be put off by larger amounts. Initially she was looking for more after her breakfast. When a little more was offered a while later, she left it. I am guessing she felt full as the food expanded in her stomach.

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: FurriesMom112 on Mar 11, 2015, 20:02
Hi. We are waiting for  our first bag of Gentle to arrive. Ordered it Sunday night after trying a sample. My dog  currently eats a mix of kibble and canned food. We will have finished the canned tomorrow so hoping to do the changeover using just the kibble.  Is there a specified/suggested number of days for the changeover to this food.   Just worried as  current food is low and Harvey won't like too much dry kibble for long!
Also, Harvey enjoyed the sample but worried about him facing a meal of it  as he does like his canned food. How mushy does it get with added water?  Any experience and advice would be great.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 11, 2015, 20:27
I didn't transition mine - just started it and they were absolutely fine.  AFAIK there is nothing in it that should cause any violent reaction and brown rice is often recommended when a dog has had digestive problems.   As I've already mentioned, remember to weigh it accurately so as not to overfeed.  If you want to soften it just pour a little warm water over and it will be nice and mushy within about 10 to 15 minutes.  You get used to how much to add to get it to the consistency you require.  I soften Gentle for their Kongs but do it by guess.  Really I ought to have a go weighing it and measuring the water properly - will do that next time.  I do hope that your dog does well on cold pressed food. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: FurriesMom112 on Mar 11, 2015, 20:48
Thanks Dottie. Hoping it arrives in the next few days so we can see how Harvey does with it. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Mar 11, 2015, 20:54
I also only add a little water to stuff kongs . Initially I used to pour a little warm on to release the smells from the food and serve it straight away but my dog will eat it however  it comes. She is still enjoying it and has been fed it (amongst other foods ) for a while now.

Although she mostly has it for treats and kongs, she is happy to have it for a meal as well. She is mostly having wet food and raw for meals.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Greg on Mar 12, 2015, 14:40
Thanks Dottie, i think i'll message a few of the cold pressed companies and ask how they make sure their products are sterile. I'll let you all know what i'm told.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Greg on Mar 13, 2015, 16:02
Just spoken to one company that do cold pressed, they've said that meat products are '...cooked in way that salmonella and bacteria are destroyed and that the food is later cold pressed at no more than 45 degrees celsius.' although she couldn't tell me what that cooking process is, so cooked meats are then being cold pressed. Does that not defeat the point a little, although the videos of the extruded vs cold pressed digestion make it look a much better prospect regardless, but is the difference between the nutritional values being saved that noticeable?

Certainly doesn't answer why a UK manufacturer hasn't done it yet if it's as simple as cooking the products first before cold pressing?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: chrishordley on Mar 14, 2015, 08:52
Is this where pasteurization comes in ? I am no expert but raising to and maintaining sufficient heat to kill off bacteria as with dairy products produces "safe" food without the nasty chemical effects high heat produces. I tend to slow cook without searing after reading about the controversy over grilling etc. The colour of the product kinda suggests it is not raw.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: FurriesMom112 on Mar 14, 2015, 12:34

My Dog is 14 with  liver problems caused by an enlarged gallbladder. Sorry been on here a lot recently so you prob know already!
I wanted to place him on Gentle as it's good protein, low phosphorous, and natural. It seems to fit the requirements for his health problems.  I was concerned about the lowish fat content  as my pooch is losing weight so contacted my veterinary surgery.
I was told today by the nurse that they did not like the look of Gentle  for the following reasons:
It caters for all dogs and is not specific for seniors
The feeding guide was I think they thought "too vague".
The idea that the analysis was not dry matter.
Overall they said it was not good quality and they could not "put their name to it".
Came out of course with a recommendation to call 'royal canin'.
I am going to ring the Gentle company  for their response to this but anybody got any views on what my surgery is saying about this food?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 14, 2015, 13:01
Quote
It caters for all dogs and is not specific for seniors
There are different thoughts on this - some believe in life stage food to meet what is supposed to be different nutritional needs and others feel it is unnecessary. I am not sure, but I think that the analysis of Gentle, being mid range makes it suitable for all life stages.  However, it is their opinion and I respect that. Like so much to do with dog food, at the end of the day it is down to individual choice.
Quote
The feeding guide was I think they thought "too vague"
I've not found that to be the case simply because I have never come across a feeding guide that was anywhere near accurate anyway. On the contrary, I find it easy to work out and the website does say that you need to move it up or down depending on the dog's needs. That seems sensible.
Quote
The idea that the analysis was not dry matter.
Earlier I mentioned this and suggested that you take the dry matter analysis from the Dog Food Directory of this website - it is provided graphically in the form of the dials. 
Quote
Overall they said it was not good quality and they could not "put their name to it".
The review on this website does not tally with theirs so you just have to read up and form your own opinion.

On the subject of Royal Canin, it seems to take a lot of flak but tbh I have fed their products in the past and I don't remember having any problems with it.  I have posted on the thread
here (http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=738.msg1938;topicseen#msg1938) about veterinary advice.  All I can say is that this is their opinion so you have to do the homework and make that decision yourself.

One thing I have learned over the many years of dog ownership is that there are many different views and ways of feeding our furry friends.  No one thing is right and that is why I am always wary of people who are dogmatic (no pun intended) on the subject.  If you feel that this product might be helpful then yes, have a chat with Beate Rothon about it and see what she thinks.  You can but try it and monitor your dog's condition.  I would be interested in hearing the outcome and following your dog's progress. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Eden Holistic Pet Foods on Mar 14, 2015, 20:07
What is the difference between a senior (or puppy) food and a typical adult food... Protein levels.

Adult food is often about 25%, puppy or senior is pushed up to 32% (for growth in puppies, and to minimise muscle wastage plus to compensate for reduced digestive take up in seniors).

So if a food is 32% or over in protein already then why would you need a separate senior or puppy variety?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Dec 21, 2015, 19:57
I don't think this brand has been mentioned on the forum before although I may be wrong. However to update the cold pressed topic. Pure Dog cold pressed grain free Chicken,Trout and Potato. Pure Dog also do a range of low temperature in-can cooking process wet foods. www.puredog.co.uk/
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Dec 21, 2015, 20:06
Thank you for the update - I didn't know about this.  Another addition to the cold pressed range is Guru Pet Food (http://www.gurupetfood.com/).
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Dec 21, 2015, 20:47
Great to see more cold pressed foods on the market. They are woefully few and far between at the moment.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Dec 22, 2015, 16:01
Healthy Dog have added a new variety to their cold press range of dog food, Wild Boar.
www.doghealth.co.uk/collections/food-treats-collars/products/new-wild-boar-100-natural-cold-press-dog-food
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Dec 22, 2015, 19:27
Good find Seaweed - thank you.  :)    A most unusual product as it contains wild boar meat.  Also it  is grain free, the carb source being sweet potato (no white potato).  This is significantly different to some of the other cold pressed products which tend to have brown rice in them.   I'd like to know more about it - who makes it and where it is manufactured.  Would also like to see the review on here - will put it on the Facebook page as David might see it there and put it in the computer.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Dec 22, 2015, 21:04
Dottie, the only added info I can give is Francken Food bvba (Belgium) is a wholesaler of dog food and producer of Healthy Dog. This was taken from a web page translation.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Dec 23, 2015, 10:31
David has picked up my message on Facebook and will try to get it added to the Dog Food Directory.   The website does not display the correct nutritional information and guaranteed analysis so I cannot put the product in the Instant Review Generator.  I note that there is only one size, 12kg and that the price is £55. That is rather pricey but of course cold pressed food usually needs to be given in smaller quantities.  I found that this was the big problem with it.  I gave slightly under the 1% of body weight because at the time I was trying to keep the weight of two of the dogs in check.  The quantity was minuscule and the poor things had it polished off in a nano second, especially as there was nothing to crunch - they just swallowed the nuggets.  It used to really bother me.   :(
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: David on Dec 23, 2015, 11:35
Good work spotting this product Seaweed - as Dottie says, it is quite unique. I haven't been able to find much information online but I have just sent an email to doghealth.co.uk asking for more information. We'll see what they come back with.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Jan 20, 2016, 09:24
An article on Guru cold pressed in The Telegraph newspaper.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/12102289/Dog-food-fit-for-humans-proves-a-hit-with-pet-lovers.html
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Jan 20, 2016, 17:20
Good news! I had a look as I hadn't noticed this one on the directory. Ideally I would feed this as an occasional meal or as treats. I find it a bit frustrating that all the cold pressed foods come in minimum quantities of 5kg. Since they often have a 6 month shelf life, it is a bit too much for me. Perhaps if they take off more I can find somebody local to split one with.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 20, 2016, 18:34
I spotted the link on their Facebook page this morning.  I seems that the company are doing well.  The product looks good and reviews well on the Dog Food Directory. 

It is good to see another cold pressed product but such a shame that there is no UK manufacturing base. Seems to me that cold pressed dog food is set to become very popular in the future. 

I agree with Tinyplanets though - I too was very tempted but I do not want to buy 5kg in case it doesn't suit them.  Bearing in mind that dogs need less of it anyway because of the density, it lasts a long time and might expire before it is all used up.  I used to have this problem with Gentle. I really think that they should produce 2kg bags.  If they had had this size I would probably have ordered a bag.   
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Jan 21, 2016, 17:04
I have contacted Guru regarding smaller bags. Lisa Clarke, kindly replied  "We are looking to produce a smaller bag over the next coming months. Once we receive them, we will place a note on our website". Lisa cannot give a date but they will be coming soon. Lisa also went on to say that Guru has an eight month shelf life and free samples are available should anybody wish to try. I have to say Guru (Lisa) responded to my query in very good time which is always a good sign.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 21, 2016, 19:55
Thank you very much for doing that. I will try to remember to keep a watch on the website for the smaller bags. I like cold pressed food for my dogs and am very tempted by this one.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Jan 24, 2016, 23:52
Re Guru : Been keeping an eye on related internet content re their food with interest. Certainly there  seem to be some efforts being made to get the brand out there.  Currently I cant see a grain free option. As mentioned elsewhere that there are other cold-pressed foods  out there that per/kg seemingly cost less  (aware of the age old claims in selling products that many sellers justify price as being relative to quality). Good to see another new food though.


Re "Healthy Dog - Wild Boar"  : Saw this online a week or so ago. it's good to see another cold-pressed on the market. Also good to see another cold-pressed with a food source  other than chicken (nothing wrong with same but some feeders prefer other meat sources).Great to see its grain & white potato free & uses sweet potato. (I feed grain free, low carb white potato free diet for specific reasons I may elaborate on at some time within another post).  Although their site lists various ingredients I havent seen a full percentage composition breakdown. Their site has a page with ingerdient and analysis listings for two other cold-pressed products which can be seen by
clicking here  (http://www.doghealth.co.uk/products/healthydog-full-specs) however that does not give percentile breakdown of composition (for those other two foods) there isn't any info there re the wild boar food.
I note that the sourced wild boar are claimed a better food source than penn reared pigs, however, this did make  me wonder what the food sources the wild boar are eating ( I fully accept we often know very little re food chain in food for feeding humans as well as animals/pets but the term forage perhaps caused me to wonder re this).

I am increasingly interested to learn more re this food  & other cold-pressed foods.

I would also like to have better understanding of percentages of carbs in cold-pressed foods.

Oh and re shelf life of cold-pressed foods - I may be wrong but on back of a trusted to me source I  was caused to believe shelf lives may vary depending on the binding agent ingredient used. (& crucially also appropriate storeage conditions).


Great thread re a very interesting & evolving area of the dog food market.

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: All_about_Chutney on Feb 05, 2016, 13:42
I have a young cavalier King Charles and I'm looking to change his food and OMG is it confusing! I haven't quite got my head around feeding RAW yet, may do that at a later date,  so in the meantime I was looking to change his current Burns kibble to a cold pressed grain/chicken free one, which doesn't leave a lot to choose from  :)
While trawling the Internet I spotted a brand called 'WildInside' which does cold pressed
Has anyone purchased this as I can't see any reviews anywhere ATM

Thanks


Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 05, 2016, 15:01
I don't know of that product. The only chicken free cold pressed food I can think of at the moment is Black Angus. It is sold by Zooplus.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: All_about_Chutney on Feb 05, 2016, 15:32
Thanks I will check this one out too!

The one I mentioned is from a UK website do think it may be UK made.

they only sell this brand and they do a 3kg bag too, so may give it a try.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 05, 2016, 16:34
Sorry - I should have given you the link but I was in a rush so here it is. (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/markus_muehle/markus_muehle_black_angus/380150)  It contains duck but no chicken, the primary meat source being beef. Tinyplanets has used this product for her dog so knows a bit about it.  There are no UK factories that make cold pressed food at the moment.  I only know of two and that is the Markus Muhle one in Germany and I believe there is one in the Netherlands but not 100% sure. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: All_about_Chutney on Feb 05, 2016, 16:50
After looking at the website again it would appear to be Norwegian even though it's all in GBP.
The problem I have is my cav is only 6.5kg and most of these cold pressed foods are in 15kg bags or seem to have chicken or grain. Will have to continue my quest z :D

Thanks
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Feb 05, 2016, 17:24
Vobra are a dog food manufacturer in the Netherlands, one of their brands is the cold pressed  "Impress Your Dog" available from Natural Pet Nutrition, Northern Ireland.
http://vobra.com/pressed-feed.html
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Feb 05, 2016, 18:44
Hi all about chutney, I have indeed used Black angus and my dog got on well with it as she has all the cold pressed foods. It actually smells similar to gentle and Markus Muhle but the kibble is a smaller size. Some people may be put off by the large size of some of the cold pressed pellets but my 6.2 kg dog managed them fine and they can easily be softened with warm water.
Although I would love smaller bags, I think you will be fine with 5kg if it will be your dogs main food.  I like to use cold pressed for occasional meals and treats so a 2kg bag would be ideal.  I used to feed part nature diet and part cold pressed and 5kg still used to keep all right.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: All_about_Chutney on Feb 05, 2016, 19:08
Thanks Seaweed & Tinyplanets,

I'm looking for grain free and black Angus has brown rice added unfortunately. Ideally I'd like sweet potato instead. All the cold pressed foods seem to either contain chicken or rice
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Feb 05, 2016, 21:39
Maybe have a look at Lukuluss Duck & Lamb.

It contains dried potato flakes & sweet potato.

I believe that due to lower temperatures in manufacturing cold-pressed  (than dry extruded) there needs to be something in composition to allow ingredients to bind. Green mineral clay sits in my mind (although I do not know a great deal re cold pressed & am most keen not to give wrong info).

Link below should take you to composition of the food I mentioned  (scroll to composition & click to expand).

http://m.zooplus.co.uk/detailsInfo/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/lukullus/444185#description

Guru Surf & Turf is absent of chicken but not grain free, as has brown rice in composition.

I dont feed grains purely because taking my Lab off a dry extruded kibble (which contained it) reduced anal gland issues. I must stress that I do NOT know for certain that rice was the issue. I think, as owners, some of us can be pretty quick to conclude our dogs have genuine allergies or dietary intolerances......terms like hypoallergenic & grain free have arguably to some extent convinced some of us that some of our dogs are perhaps less food tolerant than they might actually be.

I continue to follow the cold pressed segment (& other alternatives to dry extruded)  with great interest.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 06, 2016, 07:02
Please note that there is a thread on the storage of cold pressed dog food here. (http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/post/topic=1089.0;last_msg=3475)  It has not been merged with this one as there are concurrent discussions going on at the moment and it would confuse them.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Feb 06, 2016, 10:16
Thanks - Re forum housekeeping  I was mindful the rice chat crossed a little between dietary & shelf life discussions & also saw your comments in the other thread  ;)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 06, 2016, 14:07
I think that Chutney's posts illustrate the need for more cold pressed food products with different formulas, particularly grain/chicken free and containing sweet potato.  I am hoping that this will happen in the future.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: All_about_Chutney on Feb 07, 2016, 19:54
Thanks everyone
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 08, 2016, 10:43
The domain cold pressed dog food.co.uk (http://www.coldpresseddogfood.co.uk) has some information which might be of interest to pet owners. Looks like it is Gentle and Scampers.
For those who feed a cold pressed product, please could you comment on the smaller feeding amounts and how your dog has adjusted to it? I used to find this a problem with my three. There is some advice about transition on the
Farmfood website (http://www.farmfood.co.uk/dogfood/premium-quality/natural-holistic/switching_to_farmfood.html) and they mention the need for the dog's stomach to adjust to the smaller quantity. Any thoughts please?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Feb 08, 2016, 18:15
My dog came from dogstrust with a bag of Arden Grange and some tins of chum.I f I remember correctly, we had instructions to feed 120g daily of AG and a spoonful of chum with each meal. Although an initial look around indicated that Aden Grange was fairly decent, I did not want to feed a baked food.  By the time I had researched, changed my mind  several times and finally ordered some Markus Muhle, I had run out of Arden Grange. My neighbour gave me a little Wagg until the new food arrived. She was just given the MM alone when it came but she has always seemed to cope. I worked out that I needed to feed 90gs a day of MM and no chum. Funnily enough, I had no problems with hunger. The first week we had her and when still on the Arden Grange, we changed her evening feed from 4.30 to 5.30pm and a couple of days she had some hunger sickness.  A small snack at 4ish solved that problem but we were able to phase that out when she was on the MM. I actually had more issues with hunger when I switched to raw complete. She started eating clods of earth. I didn't adjust the amount of raw but added some gentle for treats and the odd meal.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Feb 08, 2016, 18:40
Just to add, Coaster, that I found all the cold pressed food produced healthy looking stools. Not as hard as with her diet now but firm and after having to have her anal glands done in the first few weeks, I haven't had to have them expressed since. Like you, I can't say for sure if the food can be credited with keeping them from getting blocked or her previous food leading to them needed to be done.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Feb 08, 2016, 21:19
Thanks for clarifying the output quality.

Gland issues aside, I have own reasons to hold back on introducing/trialing cold-pressed - Alleged Carb levels......

Some dog food companies give carb levels on request,  (albeit I am yet to receive a breakdown of simple & complex carbs as separate percentages). When dog food carb levels are unavailable from food companies I use data from this website, (a.a.d.f.) , or do my own maths based on what percentage remains after deducting numbered percentages.....(a  crude method, not agreed by some suppliers).

I am also interested to know more re pro's & con's of cold pressed & pro's con's of mineral clay & kieselgur.


To put my carb interest into context........My lab had mast cell tumour removed last year. I feed current food on back of, (stateside), dog cancer vet advice alleging potential benefits from feeding low carb diet, (to dogs at risk). Veterinary opinions vary widely. I also know of a highly regarded cancer treating holistic vet that recommends a specific cold-pressed brand. My own oncology vet does not regard diet or carb levels as being relevant to risk..... I am absolutely NOT alleging any risks from any foods or food types - I remain open minded whilst trying to do what's sensible for our two dogs.

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 09, 2016, 06:18
A friend of mine had a dog who died from bone cancer just last year.  I did not know of the reputed link between carbohydrate and cancer until she told me.  I don't know if there is any definite, proven link but having had two of my own pets die from cancer,  I can understand that an owner would want to do all they can to prevent acceleration of the disease. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Feb 09, 2016, 11:02
Thanks for reply. Really keen not to wrongfully deter folk from buying suitable foods or food types......More info re my dog and current agenda to reduce carbs here  (http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/feeding-dogs-with-health-problems/14/cancer-fighting-diets-and-reducing-carbohydrate-levels/1094/msg3511;topicseen#msg3511,)

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 09, 2016, 12:20
Well, the carbohydrate in dog food issue will always be controversial to a certain degree. David's reviews on this website are that it is the quality that counts. Cold pressed food usually contains brown rice which is viewed favourably as it has nutritional benefits. As long as the dog is not intolerant of grain then it should be ok. As an example, Gentle has 28% brown rice which, if I were making home made food for my dogs, I would feel is a reasonable amount.  The new kid on the block, Surf and Turf has sweet potato in it, which again is thought to have nutritional  benefit for the dog.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 11, 2016, 16:25
I have split the last two posts to form a new topic about Lukullus.  This can be found here. (http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1095.msg3512#msg3512)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 12, 2016, 13:06
Transition to cold pressed food:
There are some useful instructions on how to transition to cold pressed food
here. (http://www.gurupetfood.com/feeding-guide/)  Cold pressed food is heavier than kibble and the page  has an illustration of the smaller quantity that is needed.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Apr 22, 2016, 18:19
A member of another pet forum spotted this cold pressed food, puredog (http://www.puredog.co.uk/our-products/wholesome-meal-in-a-bag/) I don't know anybody who as tried it yet but it does come in smaller bags. I put one varieties ingredients through the instant review generator and it came up as a 4.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Apr 23, 2016, 16:53
Am I right in thinking it is grain free? Also, I wonder where it is made?  ???
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Apr 23, 2016, 19:40
Yes indeed, it is grainfree. The website says that the company is registered in England  but I can't find any information on where it is made.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: NATNAT on Apr 26, 2016, 18:57
Its made in Germany I thought  :)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Apr 27, 2016, 12:51
AFAIK the only two companies who manufacture cold pressed foods are the one in Germany (Lupo Group) and the other in the Netherlands who make Farm Food HE. Would imagine it has to be one of those but can't be sure. A while ago I came across cold pressed food in Ireland. I can't remember much about it but a quick search has brought up Dog Lovers Gold (http://dogloversgold.ie/coldpressed.html). The Europe office is in the Netherlands.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jun 01, 2016, 15:43
From Facebook:  Gentle are about to release a new variety of cold pressed food based on a single source protein, white fish - link (https://www.facebook.com/GentleDogFood/photos/a.122802011223864.1073741827.121592914678107/389787177858678/?type=3&theater).  Perhaps is might be useful for dogs who are intolerant of chicken or for those that have a particularly sensitive digestive tract.
Edit: this version of cold pressed food is now available and is described as "...the first and only cold pressed white fish dog food with no other animal proteins or fats."
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jul 22, 2016, 13:55
Another variety of cold pressed food from a UK company will be on sale next week.  It is Guru 'Full on Feast'. It contains duck, sea fish and vegetables.  It is grain free so will probably fill a gap in the market as there are so few cold pressed products in this category.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Anita... on Jul 23, 2016, 14:10
Does anyone know if the meat and other ingredients are cooked at high temperatures first? (I know this rice has to be).
Then is it just the case of pressing all the ingredients together at a lower temperature?
If this is the case, one of the main marketing features about the lower temperatures is not totally honest is it!

Quote from website (Guru)
We learned that cold pressing is the best way to make a complete pet food.
Unlike the vast majority of dry dog foods, the ingredients are not exposed to damaging high temperatures which can alter and change the delicate proteins and vitamins.
In fact cold pressed food is quite the opposite. The food is carefully mixed at temperatures up to 44 degrees before it’s pressed for a second. This means the ingredients retain much more of their natural nutrients

Also if pre-cooked at higher temps why would it be any more nutritious than extruded kibble?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Jul 23, 2016, 14:56
A good question Anita, I have always assumed that the grain is precooked but the ingredients such as meat, which may undergo changes under high temperature, are cooked during the cold pressing. I think cold pressing uses temperatures of around 75c which would be high enough to kill bacteria but the effects of heat would be less than extrusion which involves much higher temperature.

That said, I am not sure. Perhaps that would be a question worth asking the manufacturers.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jul 24, 2016, 14:11
Anita - here is the answer to your question:
Quote
Quote 1: All meat products have to be treated under EU Regulations No 1774/2002. This involves gentle cooking as well to prevent any nasties. Oils are cold pressed and vegetables are dried and ground.
Quote
Quote 2: We feel the is very important for people to know. So thanks for asking. If the chicken would be raw for example there could be a risk of salmonella or campylobacter, just to name two of many risks. Please contact me if you need more detailed information. Happy to explain any questions.
If you would like to discuss further, the thread is on the Gentle Facebook page. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Anita... on Jul 26, 2016, 19:44
Thank you Dottie
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Sully on Jul 28, 2016, 12:56
I don't know whether I am over feeding my dogs with this but one of them seems to be constantly swallowing all the time..like they are going to be sick..anyone else had this problem?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jul 28, 2016, 14:12
Please can you tell us how much your dog weighs, how much you are giving and frequency of meals? You could also have a word with the company staff if you wish. I find that it is important to weigh the food every time because it is very easy to overfeed. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Oct 11, 2016, 13:18
New to Zooplus is Markus Muhle Red Deer Venison (Rotwild) (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/markus_muehle/markus_muehle_black_angus/584900) cold pressed dog food.  This one contains barbary duck, venison and fish. I had a sample last week and it looks and smells the same as the other cold pressed products that I have. Price is £19.99 for 5kg and £44.99 for 15kg.  It  adds a bit more variety to what is a comparatively small range of cold pressed products.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: ofs on Oct 30, 2016, 13:12
Hello, I am new in this forum. I live in Spain and I am interested in cold pressed food for my four dogs. Checking the options that I have got : Luposan, Lupovet,  Markhus Muhle, Lukullus, Naturavetal, Farm Food and Healthy Dogs, which one would you think is the best option? Personally I  like Gentle and Guru but it is just not convenient for me.
Another question: I have my doubts about the percentage of carbohydrates, it seems to me too high in all the brands that I have checked ( around  40%), I thought the ideal % was around 20%.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Oct 30, 2016, 15:09
There is a lot of debate what percentage  of carbohydrates  is best with opinions very split. Ultimately whatever suits your dog, is good. my dog has always done well on the cold pressed foods. She now has them along side her raw food and I vary the brands. I haven't had any issues but again it depends on the dog. The best way to decide what will suit yours, is trial and error.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Oct 30, 2016, 16:18
Hello and welcome to the forum.  I only know about Gentle, Guru and Markus Muhle NaturNah because these are the ones that I have given to my three dogs. Because they are very similar I find that there are no problems in giving the dogs a different variety. You have to look more closely  at the recipe to see the differences. A very few are grain free and of these, white potato tends to be the main carbohydrate. I prefer the ones with brown rice and also green lipped mussel (for joint support) because one of the dogs is elderly. 

The carbohydrate is above average and it is a matter of opinion whether that is a good or bad thing.  The actual amount of brown rice seems to be something in the region of about one third of the recipe so to me that is acceptable but some people would not agree.   

From a quick search,
Luposan (https://luposanshop.com/gb/natural-extra/10-natural-extra-chicken.html) seems to be the one for the Spanish market but I cannot find the ingredient list on their website.  I don't think that you will go wrong whichever you choose - as mentioned, they are all similar and you can give the dog a change of meat/protein source by alternating them.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: ofs on Oct 30, 2016, 16:40
Thanks for your opinions.  I think I will try  Luposan Natural Extra Energy  first and supplement with raw food (in different meals) when it is possible. I normally change brand quite often so I have several options to choose.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Oct 30, 2016, 17:47
Cold pressed food is said to go well with raw. Tinyplanets feeds raw and sometimes gives cold pressed instead.  I do it the other way round - feed cold pressed as a base and substitute raw for one meal about three times a week.  Works well and raises the protein but not the carbs so it probably levels them out.  Please could you let us have the ingredient list and analysis when you get the packet?  Might not have been looking hard enough but could not see it on the website.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: ofs on Oct 30, 2016, 18:35
I went to "read more" on the website
Ingredients in Luposan Extra Energy:
Dehydrated and ground Black Angus Beef: 20.6 %, Dehydrated and ground chicken meat: 9.4%, Dehydrated and ground Menhaden Herring 5.8 %, Dry swamp clay 2.6%, Diatomaceous Earth 1.6 %, Canaliculus 1.6%, Green clay 1.4%, Perna canaliculus sea mussel protein 1.2%, Dried cranberries (OPC), Brown rice- (parboiled and milled), Steamed whole and ground corn, Ground millet, Ground amaranth, Cold-pressed vegetable oils (linseed oil, rice and nuts), Gelatine, Mix of dried seaweed, Fresh green herbs (caraway , fennel , thyme ), Yucca schidigera, Egg yolk powder, Ground flax seeds, Herring Oil,Beet-pulp
 and Analysis:
Crude protein:   29,6% , Crude fat:   14%, Humidity:   8,8%, Incinerated residue:   6,50%, Crude fiber:   2,90%, Calcium:   1,28%, Phosphorus:   1,05%, Magnesium:   0,12%, Sodium:   0,38%
Energy: 16,54 Mj 3900Kcal/Kg
Carbohydrates: 39,8%

 I think the ingredients and analysis are good
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Oct 30, 2016, 18:46
Currently only feeding raw complete but have looked at cold pressed previously & continue to keep an eye on market developments. I may well feed cold pressed at some point but as yet I am undecided.

Given a choice between cold pressed and most high temp dry extruded kibble then decent quality cold pressed gets my vote. I have looked into Gentle before and specifically the fish one. Beth owns Gentle & is very knowledgable. Guru is interesting though I found their site a bit too cartoon & media focused for my liking. Some other cold pressed foods dont impress me as much as others.

The alleged claimed carb figures pushed around were a concern for me too albeit carb levels are often assumed by calcuating the remaining percentage after key ingredients have been considered. Arguably not that scientific or fair.

Mineral clay, rice & potato flakes may push up carb levels. I believe there is difficulty in that due to lower temperatures in manufacturing there can be need for binding ingredients that may contain carbs. For some folk simple carbs are an issue whereas complex carbs are less of an issue.

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Oct 30, 2016, 19:20
Ofs - thank you for the ingredient list and analysis. I have put them in the Instant Review Generator and it scores 4.4 with one ingredient flagged as red (corn).  However, I know that there are problems with translation sometimes.  Also, although the algorithm has seen corn and flagged it as red, it would appear that in this case the corn is treated  in a specific way so all is not quite as it seems.  This happens with the maize in Markus Muhle NaturNah.  My understanding is that the company put things in there that they believe are advantageous to the dog so there will be a reason for it. 

As I mentioned, I have found that it is OK to switch between these cold pressed products because they are all fairly similar. You could therefore try this one and if you want a change, buy the Markus Muhle next time. 

As Coaster has said, here in the UK Beate Rothon (Gentle) is the person to contact for advice about any of these products.  I see that there are details about the Spanish importer on that website so you have two choices of who to contact.

Coaster - I understand concerns re carbohydrate. Of the carbs, I would prefer to give brown rice than white potato.  I  top up with protein to redress the balance a bit. 

Agree about the Guru website being cartoon-ey but it is  eye catching and some people like that.  However, they are good products.  The Field Trip Bones are super when going out for the day as they replace a meal.  They are super crunchy - mine have had them for a treat instead of a meal and it takes them a good while to polish one off.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: ofs on Oct 31, 2016, 12:29
Dottie, I have been in contact with Luposan Spain to ask them about percentages of corn and rice   in Luposan Extra Energy and the answer is  that the percentage of whole grain rice is 19,5% and 8% whole grain corn. I think  8% of corn is  not a problem at all. Very happy with its costumer support.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Oct 31, 2016, 19:53
Thank you for the feedback.  It's good that they have good customer support in Spain.  Hope that your dog does well on the food - please let us know how you get on with it.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 08, 2017, 07:46
The smallest size of most cold pressed food is 5kg.  Trial samples are not always large enough to gauge whether the product will suit the dog. For pet owners who would like to trial cold pressed food but are unsure about purchasing the 5kg size, this (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/lukullus/trial_packs/554479?rrec=true) might be useful.  It is 2 x 1.5kg Lukullus Mixed Trial Packs from Zooplus.  AFAIK Lukullus is made for Zooplus by the Lupo group.  If this product suits the dog and it has no intolerances it is likely that other cold pressed foods such as Gentle, Guru, Lupo, Markus Muhle etc will suit too because they are from the same manufacturer/production method and similar recipes.  This enables the pet owner to give a bit of variety if they wish. 
There is also a single 1.5kg bag of Lukullus Chicken & Northern Wild Salmon
here. (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/lukullus/adult/156066?rrec=true)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: ofs on Feb 08, 2017, 13:39
Alpha Spirit  has got a new variety of dry food http://www.aspiritpetfood.com/products/dry-dog-food/ (http://www.aspiritpetfood.com/products/dry-dog-food/). Through the description I understand  that it is cold pressed food.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 08, 2017, 16:50
Well spotted!  The only Alpha Spirit product that we have reviewed on the Dog Food Directory is the semi moist one - link. (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/1535/alpha-spirit-complete-dog-food)  As you say, this is a new product and according to the description it is cold pressed.  Interestingly, they have added turmeric and taurine to the recipe.  They seem to have a higher protein and fat content than some of the other, more well known cold pressed products.  I haven't put the ingredients through the Generator but at a glance I would imagine that these products would attract a high score.
The company is in Murcia, Spain.
Interesting find ofs - thank you. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: ofs on Feb 08, 2017, 17:25
I saw in some Spanish  online shops that they use a process called "Tenderize technology" that I understand is basically a hydrolysis process so in that respect it would be different to the other cold pressed food that we know.
In this web  there is  more information
http://www.huellacanina.com/grain-free-food-alpha-spirit-food-alpha-spirit-only-duck-p-9279.html?osCsid=so365rfo1jto7h88jk5j4h4ac6 (http://www.huellacanina.com/grain-free-food-alpha-spirit-food-alpha-spirit-only-duck-p-9279.html?osCsid=so365rfo1jto7h88jk5j4h4ac6)

By the way,  I have been feeding my four dogs with cold pressed food (Luposan Natural Extra Energy and Markhus Muhle Acticell) in the last 3 months and  I am really happy with this type of food. I highly recommend  cold pressed food for your dogs.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 09, 2017, 11:34
Thank you for that information - I had wondered if it was different to the cold pressed food manufactured by the Lupo Group. It will be interesting to see if it takes off in this country.  It's good to hear  that your dog is doing so well on cold pressed food.   :)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Mar 09, 2017, 09:57
To keep the cold pressed thread up to date, Naturis is now available in the UK.
http://naturis-dogfood.co.uk/
http://naturis.be/en/natural-dog-food/
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 09, 2017, 10:16
Thank you very much for the information Seaweed.  Slowly the choice of cold pressed food products is increasing. I see that the company also sell fresh frozen meat and steamed meat, the latter classed as long life and which is useful for holiday time or for when the owner has forgotten to take food out of the freezer for thawing.  The company is Belgian and their UK office is in Kent.  The website contains a lot of detail, particularly relating to ingredients - link. (http://naturis-dogfood.co.uk/product/gluten-free-cold-pressed-complete-dry-food-chicken-high-energy/) It looks interesting but I need to study it more closely.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Mar 10, 2017, 21:11
Forthglade are to launch a cold pressed dog food. https://www.patshow.co.uk/products/forthglade-foods
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 11, 2017, 05:36
Thank you for the information Seaweed. Do you happen to know whether it is manufactured by the Lupo Group?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Mar 11, 2017, 11:08
Dottie, I don't know where the Forthglade cold pressed is made, the only information I have found is in the snippet that I posted but will keep an eye out for more info. With over 21,470 views cold pressed dog food has certainly created a lot of interest.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 11, 2017, 12:36
Thank you Seaweed - I really appreciate you keeping us up to date.  I hadn't noticed the views count so thanks for pointing that out and yes, it would seem that the products are creating interest.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Mar 11, 2017, 12:44
So pleased to see all these new cold pressed foods appearing. I will be even more pleased when somebody makes a smaller bag ???
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Red_Akita on Mar 12, 2017, 09:52
In the past I used Gentle for my Akita; I was pleased with the quality of food and my dog seemed to love it!
Then I found out she's intolerant to chicken so I had to stop buying it (I haven't excluded salmon yet so I'm not risking the other flavour).
It's great that Naturis is now doing a turkey flavour, thanks SEAWEED for sharing it!
When my current stock of food runs out I'll try it for sure.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 12, 2017, 10:27
We had another member with the same issue. Fortunately, the selection of cold pressed foods is increasing. Gentle now has a fish variety and there are other types - beef, duck, venison. Please could you let us know how you get on with the Naturis? We are interested in reviews.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Red_Akita on Mar 14, 2017, 06:27
I think you raise a very good point.
I've been on Naturis website and the ingredients list doesn't seem very detailed. They say more or less what the food contains but it all looks a bit dodgy.
Hopefully I just haven't browsed their website well enough, but the facts that the ingredients list and their amounts is not on the same page as the food itself doesn't promise well.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 16, 2017, 15:53
Tinyplanets - try Bitiba (http://www.bitiba.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/lukullus/lukullus/359646?rrec=true) for 1.5kg bags of Lukullus.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Mar 16, 2017, 16:45
Thanks Dottie, I had completely forgotten about that. I have bookmarked it now.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Mar 18, 2017, 07:14
Forthglade are taking pre-orders on Amazon UK (Prime) for their Forthglade Cold Pressed Chicken Kibbles Dry Dog Food and Forthglade Cold Pressed Duck Kibbles Dry Dog Food, 6kg and 12kg.
The ingredients for the Duck 6kg is incorrect as it shows the chicken ingredients, the Duck 12kg is correct.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=bl_dp_s_web_0?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Forthglade+Cold+Pressed&index=pets&search-type=ss

Dried Ground Chicken (30%), Brown Rice (22%), Sweet Potato (5%), Dried Ground Whitefish (5%), Dried Vegetables (5% Carrots, Chicory, Parsley Root, Parsnip), Dried Ground Liver (5%), Beet Pulp , Minerals, Salmon Oil, Cold Pressed Rapeseed Oil, Cold Pressed Linseed Oil, Gelatin, Dried Moor, Dried Herbs (3% Horsetail, Walnut Leaves, Fennel, Nettle, Dandelion), Dried Seaweed, Dried Fruits (2.5% Apple, Pear, Blueberry), Prebiotic MOS (Mannan-Oligosaccharide), Camomile, Yucca Extract. Additives: Vitamin A 10,000IU, Vitamin D3 1,100 IU, Vitamin E 20mg, Vitamin B1 (as thiamin mononitrate)3.4mg, Vitamin B2 (as riboflavin)6.5mg, Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxin hydrochloride) 3.9mg, Vitamin B12 40μg, Biotin (as D-(+)-Biotin) 200μg, Folic Acid 0.3mg, Niacin 20mg, Vitamin C (as L-Ascorbic acid) 140mg, Pantothenic Acid (as calcium-D-pantothenate) 7.8mg, Choline Chloride 1,400mg. Trace Elements (per Kg): Manganese (II) oxide 45mg, Copper (II) oxide 9.5mg, Zinc oxide 110mg, Calcium iodate 1.5mg.

Dried Ground Duck (30%), Brown Rice (22%), Sweet Potato (5%), Dried Ground Whitefish (5%), Dried Vegetables (5% Carrots, Chicory, Parsley Root, Parsnip), Dried Ground Liver (5%), Beet Pulp , Minerals, Salmon Oil, Cold Pressed Rapeseed Oil, Cold Pressed Linseed Oil, Gelatin, Dried Moor, Dried Herbs (3% Horsetail, Walnut Leaves, Fennel, Nettle, Dandelion), Dried Seaweed, Dried Fruits (2.5% Apple, Pear, Blueberry), Prebiotic MOS (Mannan-Oligosaccharide), Camomile, Yucca Extract. Additives: Vitamin A 10,000IU, Vitamin D3 1,100 IU, Vitamin E 20mg, Vitamin B1 (as thiamin mononitrate)3.4mg, Vitamin B2 (as riboflavin)6.5mg, Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxin hydrochloride) 3.9mg, Vitamin B12 40μg, Biotin (as D-(+)-Biotin) 200μg, Folic Acid 0.3mg, Niacin 20mg, Vitamin C (as L-Ascorbic acid) 140mg, Pantothenic Acid (as calcium-D-pantothenate) 7.8mg, Choline Chloride 1,400mg. Trace Elements (per Kg): Manganese (II) oxide 45mg, Copper (II) oxide 9.5mg, Zinc oxide 110mg, Calcium iodate 1.5mg.







Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: ofs on Mar 18, 2017, 07:41
Dogloversgold changed the formulas for their cold pressed food, plus now they've got a new fish variety http://www.dogloversgold.eu/eu/en/ (http://www.dogloversgold.eu/eu/en/).
This is the new  "Cold pressed formula"
Composition:22% Chicken (chicken meal 12%, chicken 10%), brown rice 19%, dried potato 18.6%, peas 10%, chicken fat 6%, sweet potato 5%, dried lamb 3%, dried salmon 3%, eggs 2%, salmon oil 2%, brewer’s yeast 2%, flax seed 2%, carob pods 2%, inulin (FOS) 0.3%, minerals 0.3%, carrot 0.25%, nettle 0.25%, echinacea 0.25%, tomato 0.2%, apple 0.2%, mango 0.2%, prunes 0.2%, banana 0.2%, thyme 0.2%, basil 0.2%, spirulina 0.2%, cranberry 0.2%, celery 0.15%, probiotics: enterococcus faecium 0.02%, glucosamine 0.01%, chondroitin 0.01%.
Analytical constituents:Crude Protein: 24%, Crude Fat: 14%, Crude Fibre: 4.5%, Crude Ash: 6.9%, Calcium: 1.2%, Phosphorus: 0.8%.
Nutritional Additives (/kg):Vitamin A (alfa-retinyl acetate): 18.000 IU, Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol): 1.800 IU, Vitamin E (all-rac alpha-tocopheryl acetate): 400 IU, Copper (Cupric(II)sulphate pentahydrate): 10 mg, Copper (Cupric chelate of glycine, hydrate): 5 mg, Zinc (Zinc sulphate, monohydrate): 100 mg, Zinc (Zinc chelate of glycine, hydrate): 50 mg, Iron (Ferrous sulphate, monohydrate): 100 mg, Manganese (Manganous sulphate, monohydrate): 35 mg, Iodine (Calcium iodate, anhydrous): 1 mg. Selenium (Sodium selenite): 0.2 mg. Taurine: 600 mg, L-carnitine: 100 mg.
Sensorial additives:Yucca schidigera extract: 200 mg. Contains natural antioxidants and preservatives based on rosemary and mixed tocopherol.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Apr 11, 2017, 06:02
Forthglade Cold Pressed is now available from their website. https://forthglade.com/product-category/dog/dry-dog-food/cold-pressed/
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: ofs on Apr 11, 2017, 20:27
I found this cold pressed food in zoo-bio.uk :
Hazy Meadow - Turkey & Trout 
https://www.zoo-bio.co.uk/black-canyon/32011-hazy-meadow-turkey-trout (https://www.zoo-bio.co.uk/black-canyon/32011-hazy-meadow-turkey-trout)
Glen Valley - Duck & Sweet potato
https://www.zoo-bio.co.uk/black-canyon/32009-glen-valley-duck-sweet-potato (https://www.zoo-bio.co.uk/black-canyon/32009-glen-valley-duck-sweet-potato)
Has anyone tried them?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Apr 17, 2017, 13:29
I have only just come across Vetsend.co.uk (http://www.vetsend.co.uk/maintenance-dog-food/) website -
 they sell the cold pressed dog foods Lupo and Farmfood HE.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Apr 19, 2017, 15:49
Dog World newspaper has a feature on cold pressed dog food this week, it say's that Guru will available from Countrywide Farmers from May. Sorry no links.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Apr 20, 2017, 21:58
I've a bag of the new Forthglade Cold Pressed (Duck  with Brown Rice) here to try today -  the size of the kibbles are similar to Gentle (standard size not mini), slightly darker in colour than Gentle though not as dark as Markus Muhle NaturNah. Smells fresh when you open the bag and if anything slightly meadowy/grassy. Has a use by date of 7½ months......and more importantly first small 'tasters' were gobbled with relish!!

https://forthglade.com/product/duck-with-brown-rice-cold-pressed-dry-dog-food/ (https://forthglade.com/product/duck-with-brown-rice-cold-pressed-dry-dog-food/)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Apr 21, 2017, 10:39
I will be interested to hear how you get on with it.  My experience is that in the absence of any protein intolerances the dogs can have different varieties of cold pressed food with no digestive problems, although the ones I have used all contain brown rice.  Haven't tried the few grain free ones that are on the market.   I find the ingredient lists quite interesting as they are so unusual, particularly the herbs such as horsetail and walnut leaves.  Also, the dried moor.  I managed to find this link (https://shop.sonnenmoor.at/en/products/pets-products/original-powdered-moor-for-animals-1000-g-937161.html) about the use of dried moor (or peat).  It is quite interesting.  I have noticed my own dogs sometimes have a little snack when in the woods so they obviously enjoy a bit of dirt!  Luposan also sell a liquid moor - link. (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_health/luposan/liquid/13178?gclid=CJ6L4vmdtdMCFcwK0wod48UIgQ)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Apr 21, 2017, 14:54
Interesting links Dottie, perhaps you remember Moor Gold Liquid, well it's still available. https://www.doghealth.co.uk/products/moor-gold
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Apr 21, 2017, 15:31
I hadn't heard of that so thank you for the link.  Peat as a feed supplement for animals: a review (http://vri.cz/docs/vetmed/50-8-361.pdf) is an academic article on the subject.  Another soil based ingredient used in cold pressed food is Diatomaceous Earth (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-ingredients/0115/diatomaceous-earth) (kieselgur).  The Dog Food Directory has two cold pressed products that contain it - Lukullus and Markus Muhle Black Angus, plus the wet food AniForte Adult. It is a natural remedy for repelling fleas and parasites. AniForte sell it for this purpose - link (https://www.aniforte.co.uk/products/aniforte-flea-ex-flea-and-parasite-powder-250-ml?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=37888468871&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxazg_eC10wIVo7XtCh0MogCeEAYYBiABEgJe6fD_BwE) but it is powder that should be rubbed through the fur.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on May 11, 2017, 15:15
Newsletter from Gentle, May 2017:
This month's newsletter from Gentle contains useful information about transitioning from extruded kibble to cold pressed food  - 
link. (http://www.gentledogfood.co.uk/downloads/newsletter-may-2017.pdf)  This is useful reading for those who are thinking of moving their dog onto cold pressed food.  The advice given is relevant to the other cold pressed  foods e.g. Markus Muhle NaturNah/Black Angus/Rotwild Hirsch, Guru, Lupo, Lukullus.

Transitioning from extruded food to cold pressed: The advice is not to mix kibble and cold pressed as they break down in in the stomach differently. The transition should be done by giving cold pressed first as treats, then as separate servings, gradually increasing the amount and decreasing the kibble.

Transition from raw:  This can be done immediately as they digest in similar ways. 

Amount: Adult RDA is 1% to 1.2% of ideal body weight. They point out that if the dog suffers from loose stools or is excessively thirsty, the amount should be reduced immediately as it is suggestive of overfeeding.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: DeclanjjWhelan on Jun 15, 2017, 12:55
Hi Dottie, what cold pressed brand do you use out of interest? thanks, declan
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jun 15, 2017, 14:29
* Declan - I have moved your post here in order to keep the other thread on track.

Initially I used Gentle original - that was a few years ago. Have also once used Markus Muhle NaturNah. They are all good products, made by the same company.  I like the brown rice/white potato free ones so currently using Guru Surf and Turf. Forthglade, Lukullus and Rotwild look good and I would be ok with any of them but I have a couple of issues with one of my two dogs. She is stable right now so I'm wary of rocking the boat.   I tend to reduce the amount of cold pressed slightly and give a little home cooked food for variety. They're having cooked veg and chicken or fish for lunch this week because the eldest has put a bit of weight on - it's like Weight Watchers central here! LOL 

I just wish that all of the cold pressed companies would manufacture 2kg bags and provide a bit more variety. Would like to have a turkey flavour. Years ago I fed James Wellbeloved and used to buy different flavours so the dogs could regularly have a change. I only have two small pooches these days and as they don't need much, the smallest (5kg) bag seems to last for ages.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Sep 02, 2017, 17:21
Tribal Pet Foods known for their treats are launching a cold pressed dog food, Tribal TLC (Truly Lower Celsius) 2.5kg grain free Turkey recipe, at Pats show later this month. Whether there will be other sizes we will have to wait and see. It does not seem to be on their website at the present. The only news I can find at the moment is at the following link.
https://www.patshow.co.uk/exhibitor-press-releases
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Sep 03, 2017, 08:20
Thank you for this information Seaweed. Please could you let us know when you have more information?  AFAIK there is no cold pressed turkey variety so it will be a change. Also, the 2.5kg bag will be helpful for those people who have a small dog or who simply want to try the product.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Sep 04, 2017, 17:02
To keep the cold pressed thread up to date, as mentioned in the classified section Carra Pet foods are launching the Prins ProCare line of pressed dog foods at Pats show later this month. This includes ProCare Mini for smaller dogs. Good to see the bags start at 3kg.
https://carrapetfoods.co.uk/index.php/about-our-foods
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 04, 2017, 17:40
To keep the cold pressed thread up to date, as mentioned in the classified section Carra Pet foods are launching the Prins ProCare line of pressed dog foods at Pats show later this month. This includes ProCare Mini for smaller dogs. Good to see the bags start at 3kg.
https://carrapetfoods.co.uk/index.php/about-our-foods

Hi Seaweed. Thank you for mentioning us. Just to clarify, Prins have the following product lines:

ProCare
ProCare Mini
ProCare Grainfree
ProCare Protection

It sounds more complicated than it is - the ProCare line is the standard line, Mini is simply the smaller bites variety, Grainfree is exactly as it says and then we have the new Protection line.

In terms of the UK market, all the product lines are in effect being launched - we began working with Prins in July. The Protection line is Prins' newest line, launched this year - as I mentioned in my post within the classifieds section, this is a food with a little extra added to help prevent heart, muscle, joint and digestive problems to larger and active breeds that are more susceptible to these issues. We're officially launching it (so to speak) at PATS later in the month.

If anybody had any questions about Prins or their foods I'm more than happy to help.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Sep 16, 2017, 11:17
Some information on the ingredients and sizes of the forth coming Tribal Pet,TLC cold pressed dog food.
http://www.pet-shopper.co.uk/products/dog-foods/tribal-dog-food
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Sep 16, 2017, 21:15
Interesting because these are the first turkey cold pressed foods that I have seen. Also, there are grain free versions. Look forward to seeing them on the Dog Food Directory. Thank you for updating us Seaweed - very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Sep 19, 2017, 21:13


If anybody had any questions about Prins or their foods I'm more than happy to help.

Do you have compositions, carb levels & metabolised energy figures for your cold pressed foods ?

Apologies if I have missed same but I could not see the info on your site.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Sep 20, 2017, 19:38
I've a bag of the new Forthglade Cold Pressed (Duck  with Brown Rice) here to try today -  the size of the kibbles are similar to Gentle (standard size not mini), slightly darker in colour than Gentle though not as dark as Markus Muhle NaturNah. Smells fresh when you open the bag and if anything slightly meadowy/grassy. Has a use by date of 7½ months......and more importantly first small 'tasters' were gobbled with relish!!
I will be interested to hear how you get on with it.

A tardy late and an overdue feedback on how the 'new' Forthglade cold pressed kibble was received ..........

and yes I'm happy to comment that the duck variety of the food has gone down a treat!   No itchy skin and no upset tums to report either. Importantly, wagging tails and empty bowls to boot!  ;D

[Save to mention also adding raw meat intermittently -  and on occasions, an amount of "complete" wet food -  to the kibble, was accepted with gusto too].
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 20, 2017, 21:09


If anybody had any questions about Prins or their foods I'm more than happy to help.

Do you have compositions, carb levels & metabolised energy figures for your cold pressed foods ?

Apologies if I have missed same but I could not see the info on your site.

Hi Coaster. Unlike other pressed foods available in the UK, we don't offer a one size fits all food - we have a range of food suitable for different ages, shapes, sizes  and nutritional requirements.

To give you an idea of the composition of our foods here is our grain free hypoallegenic food featured on this site:

https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/1736/prins-procare-sensible-grainfree

As above we have a range of foods from low calorie foods (3370 Kcal/kg) right through to a food for a working or sporting dog (4090 Kcal/kg).
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Sep 20, 2017, 21:50
For anyone who'd like to read further about Prins pet foods here is a link to their site: http://www.prinspetfoods.com/ (http://www.prinspetfoods.com/)

.... and for the variety of food in the range that has been previously mentioned, might I comment that the website seems rather specific, appearing to be discouraging (in that respect) ease of use by casual browsing...so after page 'hunting' there is helpful information here:
Grainfree Sensible (http://prinspetfoods.com/p911-procare-grainfree-sensible-hypoallergic.html)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 20, 2017, 22:01
For anyone who'd like to read further about Prins pet foods here is a link to their site: http://www.prinspetfoods.com/ (http://www.prinspetfoods.com/)

.... and for the variety of food in the range that has been previously mentioned, might I comment that the website seems rather specific, appearing to be discouraging (in that respect) ease of use by casual browsing...so after page 'hunting' there is helpful information here:
Grainfree Sensible (http://prinspetfoods.com/p911-procare-grainfree-sensible-hypoallergic.html)

Hi Meg. Prins are a Dutch company and you're correct, their English .com site is a little dated and difficult to navigate. They have recently rebuilt their Dutch site which is in the process of being translated into English and will replace the current .com site.

To give you an idea of how it will look:

https://www.prinspetfoods.nl/onze-producten/hond

You can of course find details of all the Prins foods available in the UK on our site below - this has only just gone live so apologies for any teething problems we're having:

www.carrapetfoods.co.uk/index.php/about-our-foods
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Sep 20, 2017, 22:49
Yes, thank you for the links. The updated site does indeed have the translator kicking in, after the Dutch text, that is, if it's available (depending to a degree on your search engine) so patience is needed.  Here is the link to the specific variety on that site: https://www.prinspetfoods.nl/hond/prins-procare-grainfree/prins-procare-grainfree-sensible-hypoallergic (https://www.prinspetfoods.nl/hond/prins-procare-grainfree/prins-procare-grainfree-sensible-hypoallergic)

I'm glad to hear your website is up and running now:
You can of course find details of all the Prins foods available in the UK on our site below - this has only just gone live so apologies for any teething problems .....
And I'm wondering (though I may be barking up the wrong tree, forgive the pun) if there may be an indication here of a possible future change to grainfree  - "The ProCare Grainfree selection includes five grainfree pressed foods" ? In addition to Puppy, Sensible and Senior?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 20, 2017, 23:04
Yes, thank you for the links. The updated site does indeed have the translator kicking in, after the Dutch text, that is, if it's available (depending to a degree on your search engine) so patience is needed.  Here is the link to the specific variety on that site: https://www.prinspetfoods.nl/hond/prins-procare-grainfree/prins-procare-grainfree-sensible-hypoallergic (https://www.prinspetfoods.nl/hond/prins-procare-grainfree/prins-procare-grainfree-sensible-hypoallergic)

I'm glad to hear your website is up and running now:
You can of course find details of all the Prins foods available in the UK on our site below - this has only just gone live so apologies for any teething problems .....
And I'm wondering (though I may be barking up the wrong tree, forgive the pun) if there may be an indication here of a possible future change to grainfree  - "The ProCare Grainfree selection includes five grainfree pressed foods" ? In addition to Puppy, Sensible and Senior?

No, you're not barking up the wrong tree - this is one of the teething problems I was talking about.

Prins do offer 5 grain free foods:

Puppy
Sensible Hypoallergic
Senior
Skin & Coat
Pro Energy (a high energy food for working or sporting dogs)

We currently only hold stock of the first 3 however we're going to be adding the other 2 to our site where by they can ordered and they will be shipped directly from Prins. This function is being worked on by our developer and we hope to have up and running soon.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 22, 2017, 00:38
Just to follow up on the discussion with Meg above - Prins .com site has now been updated to match it's .nl website:

https://www.prinspetfoods.com

And something which Meg did message me about regarding my own website - there is a feature on Prins' site that allows you to answer questions about your dog to narrow down the most suitable foods for you:

https://www.prinspetfoods.com/voedingswijzer#
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Sep 22, 2017, 11:24
.....and hopefully that particular useful feature can be incorporated into other pet food websites.  8)

T'is another simple way, moreso when faced with selecting from multiple choices, to help pet owners to choose an individually suitable food, nearest to the needs of an individual pet.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Sep 22, 2017, 14:02
@Carra-Pet Foods - good to see the new website. I have only had a very quick glance so far but I usually immediately look at the ingredient list of at least one item. I noticed that this product (https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-procare/prins-procare-standard-fit) (Prins ProCare Standard) is not clearly labelled - there are no percentages and exact ingredients:
Grains, meat and animal by-products (poultry), vegetable by-products (400 mg Fructo-Oligosaccharide), oils and fats (0.5 % salmon oil), sugar, yeast.  The only product on the Dog Food Directory is Prins Procare Sensible Grainfree.  It would be useful if you could add your full range to it.

As this is the cold pressed food thread, I thought it would be useful to have a direct link to these products. The pressed foods appear to be the Pins Pro Care range on
this page (https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-procare) of the website. Is this correct?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Sep 22, 2017, 16:03
@Carra-Pet Foods - good to see the new website. I have only had a very quick glance so far but I usually immediately look at the ingredient list of at least one item. I noticed that this product (https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-procare/prins-procare-standard-fit) (Prins ProCare Standard) is not clearly labelled - there are no percentages and exact ingredients:
Grains, meat and animal by-products (poultry), vegetable by-products (400 mg Fructo-Oligosaccharide), oils and fats (0.5 % salmon oil), sugar, yeast.  The only product on the Dog Food Directory is Prins Procare Sensible Grainfree.  It would be useful if you could add your full range to it.

As this is the cold pressed food thread, I thought it would be useful to have a direct link to these products. The pressed foods appear to be the Pins Pro Care range on
this page (https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-procare) of the website. Is this correct?

Hi Dottie.

First of all answering your question regarding the compositions. There are two ways in which you can detail the composition of your products; either a detailed ingredient list as we're used to in the UK or what is called a clustered composition - this is where you list the food groups. Until recently Prins only sold their products in the Netherlands where there isn't the same demand from the consumer for detailed ingredients lists - as a result Prins always used a clustered composition*. They have however acknowledged that in countries such as the UK there is a demand from consumers to know detailed ingredients list and have begun the process of changing all their packaging over to a detailed composition. As I'll come onto in a moment Prins have multiple ranges of food, some of these have already moved over to the new detailed packaging however a couple of their older, best selling ranges will take a few months due to the volume of existing packaging still held in stock - the aim is for this to be completed by the new year though. As soon as the new packaging is fully in place, and hopefully to coincide with David's new algorithm that incorporates nutritional levels as well as ingredients, we'll be adding the rest of the products to the directory.

Regarding your 2nd question. The ProCare range is just 1 of 5 ranges of pressed food Prins offer and within each range they offer at least an adult, puppy, senior and hypoallergenic product:

1. ProCare - this was their original range. https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-procare
2. ProCare Mini - this is essentially the same as the ProCare range but with a smaller sized kibble. https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-procare-mini
3. ProCare Grainfree - this is their grain free range. https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-procare-grainfree
4. ProCare Protection - this is their latest range which I mentioned earlier in the thread. This range is designed for larger, more active dogs that are more susceptible to heart, muscle, joint & digestive problems. https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-procare-protection
5. ProCare Dieet - this is their veterinarian/diet products. https://www.prinspetfoods.com/dog/prins-dietetic-feed-your-dog

The Grainfree, Protection and Diet ranges have all moved over to the detailed composition and as above, within the next few months we hope for all the ProCare & ProCare Mini products to have the same detailed compositions too. Just to give a bit of detail though - every food is 100% natural and with the exception of the hypoallergenic products which are either Duck or Lamb, all the other products are poultry based.

*Briefly just on the topic of ingredients lists and it is something I've touched on previously, I would urge people to study the analytical constituents of a food just as much as the ingredients lists and most importantly, look at the correlation between the two. An ingredients list on it's own is just a list of words, it doesn't tell you the quality of the ingredient that's used, nor does it tell you how much of the nutrients are left over after the production process. For example if you have a food that claims to have a very high meat content but a very modest crude protein level, ask yourself why - what quality of meat is being used? is the claimed meat percentage as straight forward as it seems or is the manufacturer using a rehydration factor? For those that may not know, there is a slight grey area when it comes to percentages of dehydrated ingredients. If you had a very small amount of a particular dehydrated ingredient in your product you're allowed to list the percentage of that ingredient as if it was in it's fresh form. Unfortunately there are some companies using this 'trick' for the main ingredients too which is borderline illegal.

I have a lot to do getting ready for PATS this coming weekend but next week I'll try to write a post regarding the term 'cold pressed" and claimed temperatures that pressed food is exposed to.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Sep 26, 2017, 19:22
No plans to switch to cold pressed but have been wondering.......


Another thread on these boards discusses issues with large bags spoiling before all eaten within date, (typically but not always cited as 6 months in ideal conditions).

Bearing in mind above has anyone with above issues  tried decantering some cold pressed into daily portion amounts and freezing same ?

Anybody asked a uk based cold pressed brand name if this could be done ?


Curious as to whether this is okay or not as there is some similarity to raw.  No idea how the food might react especially the clay(s) typically used to help bind these products.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Sep 27, 2017, 05:51
I have only frozen soaked cold pressed food to make lollipops etc. No idea whether this affects the nutritive values. Never had problems with the food and limited shelf life. Once bought a large bag that was just a smidgen over the sell by date by the time I got to the bottom and the food was ok.  However, I now pay more and buy 5kg bags as only have two small dogs and I like fresh supplies. I wish that all the brands were sold in 2kg bags as it would be more acceptable for folk with small breed dogs.



 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Sep 27, 2017, 11:03
Quote
Another thread on these boards discusses issues with large bags spoiling before all eaten within date, (typically but not always cited as 6 months in ideal conditions).
Bearing in mind above has anyone with above issues  tried decantering some cold pressed into daily portion amounts and freezing same ?

This has not been an issue for me and I've not so far needed to freeze cold pressed food. An interesting question and hopefully other posters may help to provide further answers.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Nov 01, 2017, 11:14
Tribal Pet Foods new cold pressed dog food, tribal TLC (Truly Lower Celcius) is now available on their website.
https://www.tribalpetfoods.co.uk/
https://www.tribalpetfoods.co.uk/shop/dog-food
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Anita... on Nov 01, 2017, 11:41
The TLC looks pretty good  :)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Petmum on Nov 01, 2017, 15:09
Tribal TLC is also being stocked by Pets Corner stores.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: David on Jan 15, 2018, 14:31
I visited Markus Mühle last week and it really is a remarkable company. I will give a full write up in the next couple of days but in the meantime there's a brief summary on the facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/allaboutdogfood.uk/).
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 15, 2018, 14:37
Thank you. What a treat.  :)  Very much looking forward to the write up.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Jan 15, 2018, 18:01
I will look forward to the full report. How exciting.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Jan 20, 2018, 19:04
News from Forthglade of two new grain free cold pressed foods, also to be available in selected Sainsburys stores.
https://forthglade.com/2018/01/17/grain-free-cold-pressed-natural-dog-food/
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: David on Jan 26, 2018, 11:33
Sorry about the delay with this. I've been absolutely snowed under these last couple of weeks. This write up will be a bit briefer than I would have liked but hopefully it will be of some interest.

The trip came about when I passed on some queries (originally raised by another manufacturer) to Markus Mühle by email. The suggestion was that the processing temperatures claimed by MM must be too low. MM obviously refuted the suggestion and invited me over to see for myself.

The factory is about 40 minutes drive from Frankfurt in a pretty little village called Hintermühlen. It's quite unlike any pet food factory I have been to before, made up of a collection of relatively unassuming, almost pretty green buildings clustered around a stream and the cottage where company owner Markus Olberts was born and still lives.

The staff were very welcoming and happy to discuss at length any topic I raised.

I mostly spoke with Markus Olberts and Peter Doepp, the company's Executive Officer & Press Officer. I was also given an extensive tour of two of the three mills.


Some key points:

The maximum processing temperature on site is indeed 40-45 Celsius as the company claims. I examined the processing line from start to finish, placing my hand on each piece of equipment including the press itself to get a gauge of the temperature and at no point did it rise above what I would describe as lukewarm. There was no use of steam and the maximum pressure throughout the process is 1.4 bar. It was a world away from extrusion.

Of course, due to this low temperature, practically all of the ingredients have to be cooked beforehand which is why some critics of cold-pressing believe it's not all that it's cracked up to be. This was one of the key topics of our conversations - how the pre-cooking affects nutrient levels and how the nutritional value of cold pressed foods stacks up against other types of foods - particularly extruded and raw.

In answer to the first part - how pre-cooking affects nutrient levels - Markus and Peter were keen to highlight the very high quality and traceability of their raw ingredients which, they believe, contain much more intact natural nutrients than the bog-standard ingredients used in most pet foods. While this is a reasonable assumption, there simply isn't enough data available on how much cooking (and particularly the production of meat meal) affects ingredient nutrient levels to allow us to do anything more than speculate.

And comparing cold-pressing with other dog food types, MM were unsurprisingly critical of extrusion where, they believe, the high temperatures and extensive processing are responsible for large-scale nutrient loss. Again, however, no real data is available to support this. Interestingly, Markus did suggest that, when done right, raw food is probably better than any dry food.

Markus Olberts designs his formulas around the diets of wolves and regularly visits a wolf sanctuary in Spain. One of the chief assertions behind the recipes and the relatively high proportion of carbohydrates is that wolves will prioritise eating the semi-digested stomach contents of their herbivorous prey even above muscle tissues etc. This claim, however, has been widely challenged (
read more here (http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html)) and I'm afraid I am currently unable to confirm one way or another.

The factory is small, almost pretty. Inside it's clean (REALLY clean), bright and airy. It combines traditional cold pressing techniques with modern electronic monitoring technology. From my brief look around, the staff seemed happy and well looked after.

Despite it's relatively small size, the company produces 2,500 tons of pet food every month. Both the ingredients silos and the warehouse are turned over very regularly so nothing is left standing for any extended period.

The processing method is, by all accounts, very simple. The ingredients are ground, mixed and pressed into the distinctive cylinder shaped biscuits. They are then cooled to room temperature using fresh air drawn in from outside and bagged.

Quality control tests are carried out at just about every stage including each ingredient batch that arrives and each batch of finished product that leaves. They have their own on-site lab and also send samples out to independent labs for analysis.

The entire facility is run on green energy from hydroelectric.

The company makes numerous charitable donations including a very sizeable monthly donation to a huge dog shelter in Romania.

From talking with Markus and Peter, it does seem that there is a big difference between the cold pressing they do and what happens at other cold pressing pet food factories around Europe. I'll be doing more research on this.

Overall I was very impressed by Markus Mühle. Everyone that I spoke to seemed to a have a genuine excitement for what he or she was doing. This enthusiasm as well as the obvious passion for pets and the environment were quite compelling. In terms of the products, the combination of high end ingredients and the very gentle processing method make a sound case for a very very good dry food more data is necessary to say how it compares to other foods.

Sorry about the slightly jumbled info. If you have any questions, please reply below and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 26, 2018, 15:47
David - thank you very much for taking time out to explain about your trip to the Markus Muhle factory in Germany. It is appreciated, especially as you are so busy right now. Your report fits with what I had previously read and the company sounds very good indeed. It is reassuring that the owners and staff care passionately about their product/s and that standards are so high. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Jan 26, 2018, 15:48
Some key points:

The maximum processing temperature on site is indeed 40-45 Celsius as the company claims. I examined the processing line from start to finish, placing my hand on each piece of equipment including the press itself to get a gauge of the temperature and at no point did it rise above what I would describe as lukewarm. There was no use of steam and the maximum pressure throughout the process is 1.4 bar. It was a world away from extrusion.

Of course, due to this low temperature, practically all of the ingredients have to be cooked beforehand which is why some critics of cold-pressing believe it's not all that it's cracked up to be. This was one of the key topics of our conversations - how the pre-cooking affects nutrient levels and how the nutritional value of cold pressed foods stacks up against other types of foods - particularly extruded and raw.

In answer to the first part - how pre-cooking affects nutrient levels - Markus and Peter were keen to highlight the very high quality and traceability of their raw ingredients which, they believe, contain much more intact natural nutrients than the bog-standard ingredients used in most pet foods. While this is a reasonable assumption, there simply isn't enough data available on how much cooking (and particularly the production of meat meal) affects ingredient nutrient levels to allow us to do anything more than speculate.

Thank you for your post David.

Just to query a couple of points you make. First of all regarding the processing temperature - MM or any pressed food manufacturer are unable to give you exact temperatures their ingredients reach during the pressing process - they can only give you the artificial heat that they add to the process. With the greatest of respect, placing your hand on the exterior of the machinery will not give you a guide to the friction and natural heat that the ingredients are exposed to as a result of the pressing process. A very mundane experiment you could do - simply rub your hands together, the friction creates heat but you won't feel that heat on the other side of your hand.

On the point regarding pre-cooking the ingredients and their objections to extruded food, surely there's a bit of a contradiction there? On one hand we're saying it's speculation to say that by pre-cooking the ingredients the nutrients are being damaged but at the same time they're critical of the additional heat used in producing extruded food?

As I believe I may have told you in the past and may have hinted at on here, the term 'cold pressed' is a myth and it's very misleading for manufacturers to use headline figures such as 40-45c when in actual fact the ingredients have been cooked at far higher temperatures before the pressing process begins. It should be also pointed out that pre-cooking ingredients isn't always necessary for pressed foods - other manufacturers will add steam (as you mention) and increase the artificial heat in the pressing process to around 70c which allows them to produce their kibble without the need of pre-cooking. This method results in the lowest true temperatures used throughout the entire cooking/production process but unfortunately doesn't sound as good from a marketing point of view.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Jan 29, 2018, 00:42
Yes it appears that we remain somewhat in the dark as to how high the pre-cooking temperatures are vs degree of nutrient loss....

I also wonder if the pre-cooking of ingredients takes place before arrival at the cold pressing plant?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 29, 2018, 09:31
I was told by a knowledgeable source that the ingredients which require heat are "gently cooked", not super heated.  For anyone who requires further information, the person to contact is Beate Rothon of Gentle Dog Food. (http://www.gentledogfood.co.uk/)

Across the Internet there are many reviews of cold pressed foods and the vast majority are positive. Cold pressed food is clearly helping our dogs to live healthy lives, whatever temperature is used to cook the ingredients which require heat.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: David on Jan 29, 2018, 10:28
Thanks everyone for a really interesting debate!

Just to go back to fundamentals for a minute, with any food the three main issues that determine the nutritional quality are 1) ingredient quality, 2) pre-processing and 3) final processing. Although the three are linked (for example some final processing types necessitate the inclusion or exclusion of certain types of ingredients or pre-processing methods), it is important not to confuse the three.

A gentle final-processing method is all well and good but if the ingredients are low grade or if they have been overly processed before arriving at the factory, it will still result in a nutritionally poor food. Similarly, a manufacturer may have the best ingredients around and might use minimal pre-processing, but if the final processing method is too harsh, the resulting food is still going to be substandard. Only when you combine nutritious ingredients with good pre-processing and final processing methods will you get a really excellent food.

On the subject of ingredient quality, I think MM have all of the boxes ticked: very strict sourcing criteria; close relationships with supplier farms; sourcing exclusively high-welfare, natural animals etc etc.

Similarly, as far as final processing method goes, I think most of us would agree that the pressing system used by MM is about as gentle on the ingredients as is possible to make a dry food. Erdem, you may dispute the temperature claim but I have no reason to doubt it. The experiment you suggest involving rubbing hands together is interesting and would have been relevant if the press was made of hands but, as far as I can recall, it was not. It was made of metal - a very good conductor of heat.

Which leaves us with the only real point of contention here - the pre-processing.

Virtually all of the ingredients used in MM are pre-cooked. That has been established. Many of the ingredients (the carbs for example) require pre-cooking to make them digestible for dogs. For those pet owners that are against carbs or cooking for dogs, this is obviously a problem but I have always found certain cooked carbs (brown rice, sweet potato etc) to be very beneficial for dogs.

For the other ingredients and especially the meat, how much the pre-cooking affects the natural nutrient levels is an unknown at this point. I have contacted numerous pet food companies including many raw food companies and others that have openly criticised meat meal on the premise that it is nutritionally inferior but none have been able to provide any data to confirm their assertions. On the other side of the argument, one company insists that the cooking of meat actually makes it more digestible for dogs in the same way as it does for humans but, again, they were unable to provide any evidence to support their claims.

Whatever the answer, it's worth noting that pre-cooked ingredients like meat meal are extremely wide spread in the dry pet food industry so almost every other dry food is subject to the same debate.

So, going back to the three key factors:

  • MM's ingredient sourcing is excellent
  • Their pre-processing is a matter for debate (but that is no different from almost any other dry food on the market)
  • Their final processing method is excellent

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Jan 29, 2018, 11:37
This is a very interesting thread.

One question I have concerns the amount of meat used in cold pressed foods compared to the traditional extruded 5 star foods like Orijen and MWH. The new Tribal TLC has 35% fresh and the new Forthglade uses 17.5% fresh and 15% dried. Both these new foods seem to my uneducated mind a bit light in meat compared to others. Is this because they are cold pressed?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Jan 29, 2018, 16:16
Similarly, as far as final processing method goes, I think most of us would agree that the pressing system used by MM is about as gentle on the ingredients as is possible to make a dry food. Erdem, you may dispute the temperature claim but I have no reason to doubt it. The experiment you suggest involving rubbing hands together is interesting and would have been relevant if the press was made of hands but, as far as I can recall, it was not. It was made of metal - a very good conductor of heat.

Which leaves us with the only real point of contention here - the pre-processing.

Virtually all of the ingredients used in MM are pre-cooked. That has been established. Many of the ingredients (the carbs for example) require pre-cooking to make them digestible for dogs. For those pet owners that are against carbs or cooking for dogs, this is obviously a problem but I have always found certain cooked carbs (brown rice, sweet potato etc) to be very beneficial for dogs.
Thank you for your reply David.

As I said, it was a very simple, mundane example to demonstrate how friction creates natural heat. The point I was making was that MM cannot tell you the exact temperature the ingredients are exposed to in the pressing process (They can only tell you the artificial heat they add to the process. During the pressing process friction is created which as a result creates heat) and that it is very misleading of any pet food company to push these headline figures of 40-45c when in actual fact the ingredients are exposed, whether in the pre-cooking phase or from the natural heat created during the pressing process, to much more heat. I should be very clear that the point regarding misleading consumers is 100% not aimed at Markus-Muhle - to my knowledge they do not push this 40c figure however there are some private label foods that do and will only mention the pre-cooking in their small print, often rephrasing it too.

It is also very positive to hear that Markus-Muhle are using high quality ingredients. As I believe I mentioned to you in an email, the correlation between the stated ingredients in their products and the analytical constituents did marry up to make you assume that the quality was high. It does raise further doubts over the ingredients lists of private label foods that may be produced by Markus-Muhle, who are claiming to have much higher meat percentages than MM's own food but with very similar analytical constituents.

I'm not sure if you have got around to reading my email from the other day but if you would be interested I'm sure I could arrange for you to be shown around Prins - not only would you be able to see the production process but we could arrange time to meet their dedicated team of vets and nutritionists too. They have been producing pressed food for over 50 years and actively work with several university's to research every aspect of pet nutrition - I'm sure they could help answer some of the unanswered questions raised here.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Jan 30, 2018, 01:22


Just to go back to fundamentals for a minute, with any food the three main issues that determine the nutritional quality are 1) ingredient quality, 2) pre-processing and 3) final processing.

Virtually all of the ingredients used in MM are pre-cooked.......... Many of the ingredients (the carbs for example) require pre-cooking to make them digestible for dogs.........

For the other ingredients and especially the meat, how much the pre-cooking affects the natural nutrient levels is an unknown at this point.
And this is indeed the point...  ;)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Jan 30, 2018, 01:46
Cold pressed food is clearly helping our dogs to live healthy lives....

Cold pressed dog food is one of many canine diets I feed. [Please note that I also feed raw, kibble, mixed wet and dry, home cooked and a canine-nutritionist-designed doggy diet to help avoid demonstrations of intolerance to ingredients :o, depending on the dog]. And thankfully yes mine are as healthy as I'd hope for and eagerly tuck into their food.

Hopefully it is fair to comment that cold pressed food is a 'popular' choice these days as a canine feed and this is currently being reflected in the poll on the allaboutdogfood website here:
 https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/dog-foods/3/all-about-our-dogs-dry-food-what-type-of-dry-food-are-you-feeding-nowadays/1355/ (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/dog-foods/3/all-about-our-dogs-dry-food-what-type-of-dry-food-are-you-feeding-nowadays/1355/) .

 It will be interesting to see how this generation of dogs fare eating cold pressed food long term.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 30, 2018, 17:18
Quote
Quote Seaweed: News from Forthglade of two new grain free cold pressed foods, also to be available in selected Sainsburys stores.
https://forthglade.com/2018/01/17/grain-free-cold-pressed-natural-dog-food/
These are now available instore in two flavours - chicken and duck. A 1kg bag is £6.  Each ingredient that is thermally pre-treated prior to cold pressing is marked with an asterisk. The carbohydrate source is sweet potato (28%).  The duck version is single meat source: 32.5% (17.5% freshly prepared duck, 15% dried ground duck.

This small size is well overdue and is just what is needed for people who wish to try the product or perhaps have small dogs.  Also might be suitable for people who usually raw feed but want something suitable to take on holiday or have maybe forgotten to defrost the food.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Jan 30, 2018, 18:19
A very interesting discussion and one that I have enjoyed reading and thinking about. Like Meg I feed  a combination of foods. Raw, home cooked and cold pressed. I also use small baked kibble for training treats.  I do feel that we still have gaps in our information about cold pressed food and indeed all commercial dog food.

After lots of reading and weighing up my own priorities, my current preference is, raw complete as my first choice, home cooked, second. I don’t feel that I have the knowledge and experience to do this properly and be confident that my dog is getting everything she needs so I keep it at around 25% of my dogs diet. Then I favour cold pressed over extruded or baked food. I do have doubts about how the ingredients were treated before the cold pressing but I have made assumptions (my old boss was fond of saying assume makes an ass of u and me) based on texture and marketing, that the temperatures are lower than other methods used. I think what sold it to me was doing the test putting some cold pressed and some baked kibble in a glass of water and vinegar which is designed to mimic stomach acid. The cold pressed broke down really well whereas the other kibble I used held its shape and went almost rubbery! Cold pressed does seem to be easily digested by my dog and I use it to relieve constipation which can happen from time to time with raw.

I am sure the future will bring many more revelations about nutrition and I may well do a complete u turn. I think all we can do is feed what we feel is the best for ourselves and pets based on what we know and feel now. If I had a vulnerable person in my household, I probably wouldn’t feed raw. I have in the past, stopped for a while when family members are recovering from surgery. The ideal food would be full of all the necessary nutrients, tasty and germ free but I don’t think that exists yet.

I tend to embrace theories full on but then I am equally likely to reject them on contemplating there antithesis. I usually end up somewhere in between with many compromises. Last year I was practically eating a paleo diet myself even though it goes against everything I thought I knew about animal fat. I am now Vegan more because I could no longer ignore the internal struggle I was having about the questionable ethics of the diary and meat industry, than for health reasons. However I did lots of research and at the moment feel my health shouldn’t suffer if I do things properly. I may well have to rethink down the line but not about eating animal products. I just hope I don’t end up drinking my dinner in a complete drink!! I like my food too much.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Jan 31, 2018, 00:20
Yes it was the fairly crude, yet equally significant water-plus-vinegar test which pipped the post when considering whether to feed cold pressed food to deep chested dogs, with their greater 'risk' of bloat.
 That, and the denser calorific content in cold pressed food which equates to a quickly available consumption of necessary nutrients, without ingesting added volume.
 
Quote
I do feel that we still have gaps in our information about cold pressed food and indeed all commercial dog food.
Yes absolutely agree with you. It is frustrating when we care so deeply and try so hard to feed our dogs well and keep them healthy and strong. And yet we are lacking important data to be as successful as is possible.

Thankfully the allaboutdogfood website is an invaluable resource and helps enormously to guide us to make better informed choices.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Jan 31, 2018, 09:21
This is a very interesting thread.

One question I have concerns the amount of meat used in cold pressed foods compared to the traditional extruded 5 star foods like Orijen and MWH. The new Tribal TLC has 35% fresh and the new Forthglade uses 17.5% fresh and 15% dried. Both these new foods seem to my uneducated mind a bit light in meat compared to others. Is this because they are cold pressed?
[/quoted]

My question was prompted because I want to switch my 10yr old Lab from a mid level grain free extruded food with 26% meat to a cold pressed food. But I want to make only one switch and to get the best I can. So am I better off with a cold pressed food like the two I mention in my original question or just go to a 5 star extruded food?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 31, 2018, 10:15
Astranine - there is no clear answer as it depends on the dog. Assuming that your dog, at ten years old is less active then I would have thought that the protein content in cold pressed food is quite high enough. My dogs are younger than yours but are not particularly active so they are suited to cp food. However, I tend to add various and alternating protein toppers once a day. It gives more variety. No real need to do this but they seem to do well on this regime.

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Jan 31, 2018, 11:25
Yes she is less active nowadays. But everything I read about older dogs suggest they need much higher protein content which Im not sure cold pressing will give me. But the overall concept of CP I definitely buy into.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 31, 2018, 11:52
I read that too but I have also read that older dogs need less fat and protein to prevent weight gain. That is why some companies sell senior lifestage products.  If the older dog needs to keep weight up then perhaps a higher protein and fat diet would be an advantage. Conversely, a lower protein and fat diet might suit the dog that is less active and puts weight on easily.

I suspect that quite a few regular users of cold pressed food add protein toppers and Gentle probably recognised this because a while ago they introduced Gentle Pure (http://www.gentledogfood.co.uk/other-products.php) which is described as a complementary food and is 100% meat.

I sometimes substitute the dinner time meal with a high quality, low carbohydrate wet food to increase variety. I’m not a nutritionist but my theory about this, and about topping up is that it lowers the carbohydrate and raises the protein. All I know is that my two seem to do well on this regime. My eldest dog (14 years old) died last year and she tolerated, and enjoyed her usual food right up to the end of life. 

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Jan 31, 2018, 16:45
Good advice thanks.

I already have two 1kg bags of the new Forthglade CP grain free so we'll see how she likes it. Hopefully some larger size bags will be available soon.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Jan 31, 2018, 17:27
As Dotite says you can get contrasting opinions regarding protein and fat levels for senior dogs - the pet food company that I'm involved with offers a food designed specifically for senior dogs and their nutritionists believe that a lower protein level and ever so slightly higher fat content is most suitable for senior dogs. Ultimately all dogs are different and exactly what your dog will need will depend on his/her lifestyle and metabolism. The one thing you should look out for most in a food for a senior dog is the phosphorus content due to the potential for renal failure with older dogs.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Jan 31, 2018, 17:45
Phosphorus content is stated as being 0.9%. Is this normal?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Jan 31, 2018, 17:56
Phosphorus content is stated as being 0.9%. Is this normal?

0.9% is fine. Foods with 1.2% or more I personally wouldn't recommend for a senior dog.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 31, 2018, 18:21
Astranine - it would be good if you could let us know how you get on with the bags of cold pressed food. Many dogs transition quickly and easily, others need a bit longer. If your dog has a sensitive digestion, maybe give some as treats first just to get used to it. Just a word of warning - when weighed, the quantity (RDA) can look paltry because the nuggets are quite dense. Don’t worry about this but remember that you can soften it with tepid water and mix to the consistency of your choice - it looks a lot more and the dog drinks less afterwards.   
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Feb 01, 2018, 00:08
Quote
But everything I read about older dogs suggest they need much higher protein content

Yes I'm inclined to agree with this for the many processes that protein is used for by a dog, such as fighting disease, dealing with injuries and infections (effectively stress responses) and these processes are not diminishing with age, rather they may unfortunately tend to increase, resulting in a much needed greater reserve of protein to call on as and when needed.

As you are likely already aware it's those good sources of high quality bio-available protein which are invaluable to dogs, whatever their age.

Regarding fats, this is where activity levels and metabolism decide the amount. Mostly due to the higher calories of fats. This could be a short trial on a particular food with x amount of fat and after a time re-evaluating to decide if x amount is fine for the calories burnt. In other words if your lab is showing she is thriving well on the food.

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 01, 2018, 10:55
Astranine - it would be good if you could let us know how you get on with the bags of cold pressed food. Many dogs transition quickly and easily, others need a bit longer. If your dog has a sensitive digestion, maybe give some as treats first just to get used to it. Just a word of warning - when weighed, the quantity (RDA) can look paltry because the nuggets are quite dense. Don’t worry about this but remember that you can soften it with tepid water and mix to the consistency of your choice - it looks a lot more and the dog drinks less afterwards.

Will do.
Thanks to all for all the helpful comments  :)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 08, 2018, 19:41
Transitioning onto cold pressed food:

During this thread (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/dog-foods/3/too-much-poo-need-advice-please/1604/msg6880;topicseen#msg6880) (post #5 onwards) transitioning onto cold pressed food from extruded kibble was discussed. 

Usually we advise that dogs should be gradually transitioned onto new food if at all possible.  AFAIK, this is also the advice given by some of the companies who sell cold pressed food (made by Markus Muhle). The transition guidelines of Guru Pet Food are
here (https://www.gurupetfood.com/feeding-guide/) and they recommend two weeks although with some dogs it would take a shorter period of time. It all depends on the dog and whether it has a robust digestive system.

Because of this discussion we became aware that Prins pet food, who also sell cold pressed food has different transitioning advice:

Quote
From the aforementioned thread #5, posted by  Carra -Pet Foods:
Just to clarify, are you suggesting the transition from extruded to pressed food should be gradual? If so this is something Prins do not agree with. Their opinion is when changing from extruded to pressed food it should be done straight away due to the differences in how the two foods digest in the dogs stomach. If you're changing between two pressed or two extruded foods then yes, do so gradually but we wouldn't advise this when changing between the two.

It can be useful to contact the manufacturer for advice and support when changing a dog's food.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 08, 2018, 21:14
Just to add to the above, I really can't emphasise enough how much we disagree with these other brands regarding mixing pressed and extruded food, particularly within the same meal. They digest completely differently.

If anybody is looking to move from extruded to pressed (or vice versa) and had any questions please do ask and I can forward them to Prins vets.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Feb 08, 2018, 21:59
.....and just to add a further pebble to the water..... .. ??? .it's also the possibility that a transition for a dog is necessary from feeding a raw diet to a cold pressed food diet and I wonder what would be the advice for this?

I ask as we are aware the tummy of a raw fed dog is more acidic and thus one might expect the transition to be easier and by implication faster.... However, as has already been mentioned, some dogs may not transition well if food is changed unduly quickly, moreso if the reason at the heart of the change is due to health issues, for example colitis.
 Unless absolutely sure of how a dog would respond I favour changing a dog's diet slowly, and even slower if there other factors involved.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 08, 2018, 22:17
Hi Meg. I've never actually asked the question regarding a complete change from raw to pressed. I do know that a lot of people that feed raw do successfully alternate between the two but Prins' suggestion is to feed 5 days raw then 2 days pressed or vice versa. I've just sent an email off to one of Prins' vets so should get an answer tomorrow but I'd imagine it would follow on from what I've just said but to increase the amount of days you feed pressed food each week.

Just for clarity if anybody is reading that doesn't know - the reason why feeding raw and pressed on alternate days is easier than pressed (or raw) & extruded food is because raw and pressed kibble digest in much the same way.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Feb 09, 2018, 00:23
Thanks Carra-Pet Foods.

It'll be interesting to hear from Prins' vets. I'm particularly super-cautious around diet changeover rates for  pups and senior dogs, any dog of compromised health, and of course any that have shown ingredient intolerance in their history.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 09, 2018, 08:03
I prefer to transition without mixing different foods in the bowl. I usually reduce a meal of the old food then a few hours later give a small meal of the new. Gradually the amounts are adjusted until the dog is on the new food. It does require smaller, more frequent meals for a little while. I would prefer to do this with transition from kibble to cold pressed because of the differences in breakdown in the stomach.  When I put my eldest dog on cold pressed food circumstances dictated that I could not transition and there was no problem. However, I knew that she was ok with cold pressed food because she had had it for a short while some time before.

A friend is trying her raw fed dog on cold pressed food, mainly because it would be useful when they go on holiday. She has noticed that the dog has an occasional small vomit afterwards. I have suggested that she just gives one or two cold pressed nuggets as treats then give a very tiny meal of it between meals, gradually increasing the quantity. For that particular dog, a slow introduction (not transition) seems to be suitable. However, if it doesn’t suit, friend can give Nature’s Menu Country Hunter wet food. The dog has their raw food and the two recipes are similar.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 09, 2018, 16:50
Sorry for the late reply, I did receive an answer this morning but I've been our all day and only just sat down to write this.

Prins vet advised that, in their opinion, it's fine to change straight over from raw to pressed and there isn't any reason why a instant change should cause any significant or long term stomach problems. As when changing between any foods there is always the possibility of some minor stomach issues for a day or so as your dog becomes accustomed to the new food. If you choosing to change over straight away it's even more important than normal to make sure your dog has plenty of fresh drinking water as they're likely to drink more in the short term to compensate for the lack of moisture in pressed kibble as opposed to raw.

Prins other suggestion was to alternate meals for a few days - raw in the morning and then pressed in the afternoon or vice versa.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 22, 2018, 11:25
Just a follow up regarding our switch to cold pressed:

We switched our Labrador from Autarky grain free to Forthglade CP grain free. In the interest of clarity I should also add that we have added Forthglade wet grain free (1/3 tray) to her food both morning and night since we started with Autarky. We considered the comments about switching over in this thread and eventually decided (because she is used to different flavours and she gets the wet food) to switch all at once. All food she gets is weighed precisely. One morning we swapped the food and........absolutely nothing changed. The change was totally seamless. Output changed colour a bit but was much the same. She absolutely loves the food and enthusiastically eats it all down and Im left wondering now whether we need the wet food at all!

Subjectively she has appeared to have more energy, she is ten years old+ and yesterday she was chasing a whippet round a field!

Interestingly Forthglade have now said this new CP grain free is made in the Netherlands. I wonder by whom?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 22, 2018, 11:45
Interestingly Forthglade have now said this new CP grain free is made in the Netherlands. I wonder by whom?

That's interesting but not a surprise to me - I know that some months ago Forthglade approached a large pressed food manufacturer in the Netherlands to produce their pressed food but this manufacturer doesn't produce private labels so declined.

Could you tell me how you found this out as their website is still stating that their pressed food is made in Germany.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 22, 2018, 11:55
Forthglade made an announcement yesterday on their Facebook page. Somebody asked them if it was still made in Germany like their other range and they answered " our grain free range of cold pressed recipes are made in Holland, by a team of like-minded dog lovers dedicated to the natural nutrition of your four-legged friend".

I had assumed it was manufactured by you but obviously not!
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 22, 2018, 12:03
Astranine - thank you very much for letting us know about the transition the cold pressed food. It is heartening to hear how well your elderly dog is doing on his new diet. 

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 22, 2018, 12:05
Forthglade made an announcement yesterday on their Facebook page. Somebody asked them if it was still made in Germany like their other range and they answered " our grain free range of cold pressed recipes are made in Holland, by a team of like-minded dog lovers dedicated to the natural nutrition of your four-legged friend".

I had assumed it was manufactured by you but obviously not!

Thank you for that. I'll ask some questions and see if I can find out who's producing it but it's definitely not Prins.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: doggiefan100 on Feb 22, 2018, 19:53
Hi, I looked at a 1kg bag of the new grain free Forthglade cold pressed food in Sainsburys and the manufacturers code is NL15606 which is Jonkers in Holland. They also told me they are dropping their current cold pressed food which I think is made in Germany and are selling it at really crashed pricing to get rid of it. Would David please rate the new food as it looks really low quality to me. Really disturbing how they change suppliers like this.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Feb 23, 2018, 00:13
Hello doggiefan100 and welcome to the forum!

In addition to the cold pressed Forthglade foods that are already on the allaboutdogfood website, hopefully David will rate the Cold pressed "Chicken and Vegetables" and "Duck and vegetables" when he has spare time available ;).

Having briefly compared the cold pressed recipes of "Chicken and vegetables" to the "Chicken with brown rice" there are expected differences, and hopefully, dogs may encompass these recipes without issues. Yet for those dogs who do react to changes in their diet, it is worth being aware of different recipes, else we may be wondering why they are reacting. :o 

Having used the allaboutdogfood "instant Review Generator" here:
https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/instant-dog-food-review.php (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/instant-dog-food-review.php) 
..... the "Chicken and Vegetables Grain Free Cold Pressed Dry Dog Food" generated a score of 4.1 with 2 of the ingredients appearing in red highlights; also 'less than 30% meat on a dry matter basis' and 'some common allergy causing ingredients'. The "Chicken with Brown Rice Cold Pressed Dry Dog Food" generated a score of 4.7 with none of the ingredients in red highlights; also 'contains some cereal grains' and 'ingredients list is incomplete or unclear'.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 23, 2018, 07:40
@doggiefan100 - hello and welcome to the forum. Thank you for the information - it is most useful. Not sure if this is the same company that you mention, but Jonker Pet Food website is here. (https://www.jonkerpetfood.nl/hondenvoer-en.html)  I agree about changing suppliers and customers need to made fully aware of this, especially if the packaging gives the appearance that it is exactly the same product.

There is another manufacturer of cold pressed food in  Nijverdal, Netherlands -
Farm Food HE Classic. (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0637/farm-food-he-classic) Company Website (http://www.farmfood.co.uk/dogfood/premium-quality/natural-holistic/nutritional-table.html)

The Forthglade offer is 30% off and can be found
here. (http://forthglade.com/product/chicken-with-brown-rice-cold-pressed-dry-dog-food/)  Cold pressed food has a short shelf life and I am wondering if it is being reduced for that reason. Do you  think they will continue with cold pressed food but change supplier of the & brown rice range to the same one as the new grain free version?

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: doggiefan100 on Feb 23, 2018, 09:18
Hi Dottie and thanks for your welcome to this forum.

Jonkers website does mention they do pressed foods and Farm Food has a terrible rating on here so a no-go.

Going back to FORTHGLADE and also the comments from Meg yesterday I have been checking a few facts which I can share on here....

I have a 30kg black lab and if I was to feed her on their new grain free cold pressed the costs are enormous. They recommend for a 30kg dog daily amount of feed at 446g per day. A 6kg bag sells for £34.99 so feeding my dog on this the bag will last 13 days. That works out at £2.69p per day!!!!! I currently feed a higher rated cold pressed food and that costs me £1.18p per day!! So over the year I would spend over £550 more using Forthglades food, I guess you all know my answer here!!! £550 will fund my 2 weeks holiday in Spain and my precious dog will actually eat a better food. Here I rest my case. regards
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 23, 2018, 11:54
Hi, I looked at a 1kg bag of the new grain free Forthglade cold pressed food in Sainsburys and the manufacturers code is NL15606 which is Jonkers in Holland. They also told me they are dropping their current cold pressed food which I think is made in Germany and are selling it at really crashed pricing to get rid of it. Would David please rate the new food as it looks really low quality to me. Really disturbing how they change suppliers like this.

Why do you say it looks low quality? It looks  similar to other CP  foods to me. And the recommended daily feeding for a 30kg dog is 400g not 446g btw. Lets wait until David actually rates this food before rushing to judgement.

Out of interest what CP food do you feed?

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: doggiefan100 on Feb 23, 2018, 15:12
Sorry AstraNine if you go on the Forthglade website for a 3 to 7 year old 30kg dog the recommended daily feed is 446g per day!! Check it out.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 23, 2018, 15:26
Sorry AstraNine if you go on the Forthglade website for a 3 to 7 year old 30kg dog the recommended daily feed is 446g per day!! Check it out.

See attached from back of bag.....

Now what CP do you feed?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 23, 2018, 15:36
Both grain free products on Forthglade's website return the same recommended feeding amount of 446 grams per day. I would imagine that the feeding guidelines on the packaging ranges from 400 to 495 grams depending on the activity levels of your dog.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 23, 2018, 21:00
I was in Sainsbury's a few weeks ago and bought a 1kg bag of the duck grain free cold pressed food just to try. I checked the recipe first and thought it looked good. The nuggets seemed thinner in diameter and the food aroma was similar to the brown rice cold pressed food that I am used to. The girls were fine on the food - no problems. 

Composition::
Duck 32.5% (17.5% freshly prepared duck, 15% dried ground duck), sweet potato (28%), peas, gelatin, chicken fat, beet pulp (source of FPS), dried fruit (2.3%:apples, pears, blueberries, cranberries), brewer's yeast, salon oil (1%), dried botanicals (0.6%:fennel, nettle, dandelion), mannan-oligosaccharide (prebiotic), egg powder, chicory extract (source of FOS), dried seaweed, camomile, flaxseed oil, glucosamine (300mg/kg), chondroitin sulphate (300mg/kg), yucca.
Additives:
Nutritional additives: Vitamin A 18000IU, Vitamin D3 1800IU, Vitamin E 500mg, Vitamin C 200mg.
Analytical Constituents: Crude Protein 26%, Crude oils and fats 12%.

It scores 4.3 out of 5 stars but the Instant Review Generator is not always correct. I expect it will achieve a better score when inputted into the Dog Food Directory.

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Feb 23, 2018, 23:20
When a company launches a new pet food product, in this age of growing internet reliance, through various online options which need  addressing, in addition to the PR involved and various launch platforms, on occasion there are likely to be areas of a website that may be overlooked. I wonder if this may be the case regarding the production changing from Germany to Holland.

 Thus the statement on the website viz "We work very closely with a team of  like-minded dog lovers in Germany to produce our new range of cold pressed natural dry food for dogs" seems to relate to the older range of food namely the 'x named poultry with brown rice' which was made in Germany.

 However, the users of the allaboutdogfood forum are on-the-ball  ;) - thankyou for letting us know AstraNine - as it seems the new range of cold pressed food, namely the 'x named poultry and vegetables' are being made in Holland.




  Dog food ingredients that mention a total meat percentage followed in brackets by the % amounts of dry and amounts of wet, are somehow scoring 'differently' when using the allaboutdogfood Instant Review Generator.   It's worth pointing out that scores are slightly lower if that initial total amount is not mentioned. eg entering the ingredients: 17.5% freshly prepared duck, 15% dried ground duck, Sweet Potato (28%), Peas, Gelatin, Chicken Fat, Beet Pulp (source of FOS), Dried Fruit (2.3%: apples, pears, blueberries, cranberries), Brewer’s Yeast, Salmon Oil (1%), Dried Botanicals (0.6%: Fennel, Nettle, Dandelion), Mannan-oligosaccharide (prebiotic), Egg Powder, Chicory Extract (source of FOS), Dried Seaweed, Camomile, Flaxseed Oil, Glucosamine (300mg/kg), Chondroitin Sulphate (300mg/kg), Yucca,
 Omega-6 1.9%, Omega-3 0.45%, Calcium 1.5%, Phosphorus 0.9%, Vitamin A 18000IU, Vitamin D3 1800IU, Vitamin E 500mg, Vitamin C 200mg.
Trace elements (per kg): Cupric sulphate pentahydrate 10mg, Cupric chelate of glycine hydrate 5mg, Zinc sulphate monohydrate 100mg, Zinc chelate of glycine hydrate 50mg, Ferrous sulphate monohydrate 70mg, Ferrous chelate of glycine hydrate 35mg, Manganous oxide 50mg, Manganese chelate of glycine hydrate 25mg, Calcium iodate anhydrous 2mg, Sodium selenite 0.1mg. Contains natural antioxidants
generates a score of 4.1.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Feb 24, 2018, 00:07
Going back to FORTHGLADE and also the comments from Meg yesterday I have been checking a few facts which I can share on here....
I have a 30kg black lab .....  I currently feed a higher rated cold pressed food and that costs me £1.18p per day

Thanks for this further information, as that sounds to me like a reasonable price per day to feed (a 30kg dog) what is a higher rated cold pressed food,  and it may help others who are in a situation of wanting to find such a food for their dogs.

Using the allaboutdogfood Dog Food Directory here: https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/the-dog-food-directory (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/the-dog-food-directory) and changing the "Dog's Size" slider to 30kg, the "Type of food" as only Cold pressed and the "Rating" slider of 3.7 out of 5 stars,  the 6 results with cost per day in order of lowest cost first (another extremely useful ranking available to sort results by!) are as follows:
Markus Mühle Natural Dog Food 93p, Lupo Sensitive 20/8 96p, Lukullus Dry Dog Food 96p, Lupo Sensitive 24/10 96p, Markus Mühle Black Angus Adult £1.06p, Healthy Dog Wild Menu £1.17p.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 24, 2018, 09:48
Thank you for these useful posts Meg. You must have spent a fair bit of time on this. The information that you have kindly provided will doubtless be of use to pet owners. I agree about website updates - the more complex the site, the easier it is to overlook things. Hopefully Forthglade will get on to that soon.

MM NaturNah is, (IMO) a real bargain, especially considering the quality. I have used it once and the dogs were fine on it but of course they are used to cold pressed food. I like to stick with my chosen brand though because I prefer the recipe. However, I feel that by and large, once a dog is accustomed to cold pressed food, barring intolerances it is alright to change flavours from time to time. I’ve read that some people alternate their dog’s cold pressed food.

Markus Muhle
Red Deer Venison (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/1811/markus-muehle-red-deer) is now on the Dog Food Directory and is listed as 95p per day for a 15kg dog. It is available on Zooplus (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/markus_muehle/markus_muehle_black_angus/584900) and possibly Bitiba. Personally, I find this name a bit odd because the lead ingredient is duck (18%) and the Venison is third on the list at 9.4%.


Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Feb 24, 2018, 10:54
Markus Muhle was the first food I fed after my bag of food, provided  by the rescue centre was finished. My dog did really well on it. She had been thin and a bit smelly and greasy but she was a stray so that was probably due to  her time on the streets rather than the food she had been on at the rescue. She is also having lukullus now as it comes in handy smaller bags. For those opting for cold pressed, it is good to know that there are good affordable options.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 24, 2018, 11:40
I noticed this video yesterday released by Forthglade on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdV_vKiocmg&index=2&list=LLJBHlxApyxXcXlTSLg2OjLQ

What is interesting is that the video shows yet another new product from Forthglade, a turkey and brown rice CP food. AFAIK this information has not yet been announced on their FB page or their website. At least as of now!
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 24, 2018, 11:47

Using the allaboutdogfood Dog Food Directory here: https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/the-dog-food-directory (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/the-dog-food-directory) and changing the "Dog's Size" slider to 30kg, the "Type of food" as only Cold pressed and the "Rating" slider of 3.7 out of 5 stars,  the 6 results with cost per day in order of lowest cost first (another extremely useful ranking available to sort results by!) are as follows:
Markus Mühle Natural Dog Food 93p, Lupo Sensitive 20/8 96p, Lukullus Dry Dog Food 96p, Lupo Sensitive 24/10 96p, Markus Mühle Black Angus Adult £1.06p, Healthy Dog Wild Menu £1.17p.

Thanks for this. Its certainly true that the Forthglade CP grain free is expensive right now. Hopefully market forces may bring the price down over the next few months. However I may need to consider another cheaper brand until then!  The Lukullus looks good and in Barbary duck form seems to be grain free as well. Might spring for a small bag.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 24, 2018, 11:51
Well spotted AstraNine - thank you for the information.  :) The company seems to be going forward apace with their range of cold pressed products. Looking forward to seeing the ingredient list for the turkey variety. I have been disappointed that MM haven’t produced one with turkey but there is probably a good reason.

I’ve looked at the Lukullus duck but not bought it as I am not sure whether white potato suits one of my dogs. However, it is only 12% with sweet potato balancing it out at 12%. Recipe seems good, especially for the price. Would be interested to hear how you get on with it.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 24, 2018, 12:17
The Lukullus looks good and in Barbary duck form seems to be grain free as well. Might spring for a small bag.
I don't believe it is grain free. The ingredients list includes "rice seed" which I can only assume is a new way of saying rice as rice itself is a seed.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 24, 2018, 12:40
The Lukullus looks good and in Barbary duck form seems to be grain free as well. Might spring for a small bag.
I don't believe it is grain free. The ingredients list includes "rice seed" which I can only assume is a new way of saying rice as rice itself is a seed.

Well spotted! Any other grain free recommendations?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 24, 2018, 12:50
We have a complete range of grain free pressed foods and then there is of course Guru and Tribal however those foods are at a similar price point to Forthglade's grain free products.

Our adult grain free food is here:
https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/1736/prins-procare-sensible-grainfree

I notice from another thread that your dog is 10 years old. As a rough guide we usually say around 7-8 years old is when you need to look at moving to a senior food but that ultimately depends on the lifestyle of your dog - if she's still behaving like an adult dog then adult food is fine however if she's behaving like a senior dog then the senior food would be more advisable.

I'd be more than happy to send you a sample of either the adult or senior foods if you'd like.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 24, 2018, 12:53
Pure (https://purepetgroup.co.uk/dry-dog-food/wholesome-meal-in-a-bag-chicken-trout)
Guru Full on Feast. (https://www.gurupetfood.com/product/full-on-feast-5kg/)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Feb 24, 2018, 22:43
We are fortunate (thank you David) to have another option in the allaboutdogfood Dog Food Directory, enabling results listed for dog foods which do not contain grain. This is a useful feature to narrow down the overall results by using the filter called "Food Properties" and ticking the box next to the option "Grain free".

Using those options mentioned earlier ("Dog's Size"=30kg,  "Type of food"=Cold pressed, "Rating"= 3.7 out of 5 stars),  with the "Grain free" option the 6 results with cost per day in order of lowest cost first (another extremely useful ranking available to sort results by!) are as follows:

Lupo Sensitive 20/8 96p, Lupo Sensitive 24/10 96p, Healthy Dog Wild Menu £1.17p, Prins Procare Sensible Grainfree £1.22p, Guru Full On Feast £1.52p, Pure Dog Wholesome Meal In A Bag £1.67p
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 25, 2018, 11:42
One other question to ask about CP food. We went grain free two years ago now (previously on Skinners Duck & Rice) and both our dogs are better for it. But are the CP foods with rice in them different to extruded food? The rice is thermally pretreated and then pressed so does that make it "better" than in extruded food? The question is do we need to remain on grain free with a CP food?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Feb 25, 2018, 12:00
One other question to ask about CP food. We went grain free two years ago now (previously on Skinners Duck & Rice) and both our dogs are better for it. But are the CP foods with rice in them different to extruded food? The rice is thermally pretreated and then pressed so does that make it "better" than in extruded food? The question is do we need to remain on grain free with a CP food?

Your dogs need for grain free kibble shouldn't differ whether the kibble has been extruded or pressed. Thermally pretreated is just a fancy way of saying cooked.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Feb 25, 2018, 13:54
On the Dog Food Directory try comparing Gentle with Skinners Duck and Rice. Gentle has 28% brown rice, Skinners 40%. In addition, Skinners has oats which brings the cereal content up a fair bit.  Perhaps your dog would be ok with just brown rice in this lower quantity. CP products also have more than one oil added and these are said to have a beneficial effect on skin and coat  health.

One of my dogs has had a skin problem. It was exacerbated by high cereal kibble. She has been on cold pressed food with brown rice for circa 2 years with no further issues. It might be due to the oils in the food but I don’t know for sure. However, all dogs are different. The only way to know if your dogs will be ok with brown rice in cold pressed food is to try it. Unfortunately the smallest bags are usually 5kg so it can be a bit pricey if it doesn’t suit.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Feb 25, 2018, 14:47
Thanks to both of you for all your great advice and wisdom.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Mar 03, 2018, 17:45
Regarding cold pressed cooking temperatures, I noticed this small piece from Tribal Pet Foods.
https://www.patshow.co.uk/exhibitors/tribal-pet-foods?&page=3&categories=F2C37972-5056-B731-4CDB7A82435252D3&searchgroup=libraryentry-exhibitors
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Mar 08, 2018, 11:58
Quick update.

Looks like our CP phase has come to an end, she is now refusing to eat CP food completely. Its unusual for her as she is not a fussy dog. She continues to eat wet food OK and will eat kibble if covered in sardines! But no not the expensive CP food. Sigh   :(
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Mar 08, 2018, 12:30
Thank you for the feedback. It is a shame that your dog doesn’t care for cold pressed food. It is quite different to kibble and although many dogs like it (according to user reviews), it is not going to suit all. Did you try soaking it to make wet food?  Just thinking that it would then mix with something tasty to encourage your dog to eat it.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Mar 08, 2018, 13:12
Yup tried that. And mixed it all up with wet food. But all to no avail she prefers to go without, its so frustrating. Wish I could ask her what's the problem?

Still have four 1kg bags to use which may have to go to our younger male Lab who is a food machine.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Mar 08, 2018, 13:18
Interestingly there's no hurry to use these bags as the best before date is 16th June 2019! So maybe we could revisit CP after a break. Always thought CP food had a short life span.....
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Carra-Pet Foods on Mar 08, 2018, 13:33
Interestingly there's no hurry to use these bags as the best before date is 16th June 2019! So maybe we could revisit CP after a break. Always thought CP food had a short life span.....

A lot of pressed foods do have short shelf life. Prins were the first that I'm aware of to have an increased shelf life, without the need to add any preservatives to the food. Prins were able to do this due to a unique way in which they package and seal their food. It would be interesting to find out how Forthglade/Jonkers are achieving this shelf life. And purely speculating, increasing the shelf life of their products may have been the reason why Forthglade changed manufacturer.

My previous offer of a sample of our food still stands if you wanted to give your dog another go on pressed food.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Mar 08, 2018, 13:55


My previous offer of a sample of our food still stands if you wanted to give your dog another go on pressed food.

Thanks. Will contact you via PM once we have her foods stabilized again.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Meg on Mar 10, 2018, 01:51
Looks like our CP phase has come to an end, she is now refusing to eat CP food completely....... will eat kibble if covered in sardines!
Bless her! I wonder if it may be that the cold pressed food may have been just a tad harder for her to manage in one of her meals. For example cold pressed as a compressed, compact and as a result, harder, pellet for her to bite through and/or swallow by comparison to kibble. 

It may be that she has a sensitive area of her mouth or perhaps a sensitive tooth as this would explain why she has suddenly refused harder food. Dogs can be brave and tough and tend to brazen through life yet it may be prudent to check her mouth to see if anything is awry.
Memories of any discomfort whilst eating could further influence her choice of food (hopefully for a short while) and I'd continue to feed her soft food for now.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Jul 13, 2018, 12:42
Cobbydog, grain free Optimum Chicken cold pressed dog food with " TurmerAid". Manufactured in the UK.
https://www.cobbydog.com/products.aspx?product=Cold+pressed+dog+food
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jul 13, 2018, 15:48
That’s a first - well spotted Seaweed. It is something we have been waiting for here in the UK.  Hopefully they will expand the range to include a brown rice version. It is a tad pricey though at £31.50p for 5kg. I like the 42% protein and the analysis - 32% protein and low fat - 9%. Wondering if this would make it highly suitable for weight loss.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Jul 13, 2018, 16:02
Dottie, it seems Wilsons Pet food (Perthshire) are also bringing out a cold pressed dog food.
https://www.patshow.co.uk/exhibitors?&azletter=W&searchgroup=00000001-exhibitors
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jul 13, 2018, 16:49
I’ve been waiting for UK companies to invest in this manufacturing method. I expect that cold pressed food will become more popular as a result of  having a home base. Will be interesting to see what Wilson’s come up with recipe-wise. 
Well spotted Seaweed.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Jul 13, 2018, 17:21
Its good news. I just hope other manufacturers offer something other than chicken.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jul 13, 2018, 19:31
Yes, more variety is good. What I would like to see is a range of brown rice ones including turkey, venison and fish.  I have to pick through the current ones because some contain white potato in various forms. I also wish they would sell 2kg or 2.5kg bags so we could give them a change. 5kg lasts a long time with my two little dogs.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Jul 14, 2018, 11:09
Yes, more variety is good. What I would like to see is a range of brown rice ones including turkey, venison and fish.  I have to pick through the current ones because some contain white potato in various forms. I also wish they would sell 2kg or 2.5kg bags so we could give them a change. Many years ago I used to feed JWB and that was one thing I liked about it - the dogs had a regular change of food without upsetting their digestion. 5kg lasts a long time with my two little dogs.

Variety is always good. But I sincerely hope whomever makes these products do some market research and price their products sensibly. Forthglade CP is expensive IMO as is TLC and if Cobbydog think they are seliing me 5kgs for an eye watering £31.50 then they are bonkers!
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jul 14, 2018, 14:25
Cobbydog orders over 3kg are free p&p (if I have read it correctly) so that makes it a bit cheaper as delivery is usually in the region of £3.50p. According to the Instant Review Generator the score is 4.8. This reflects the high meat content and no red ingredients. Bearing in mind the quality and low feeding amounts, the price might be acceptable to some people. It’s certainly not the most expensive in that category. Grain free seems to be popular these days so this recipe might well attract pet owners, despite the price.

I suppose that setting up a manufacturing base in the UK has involves significant investment so this mIght account for the pricing. They will be competing with Markus Muhle NaturNah on Bitiba/Zooplus. Currently on Zooplus it is £11.99 for a 5kg bag. P&P on top of that.

Edit: I had forgotten about Lukullus from Zooplus. (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/lukullus) There are three varieties and can be purchased in 2 x 1.5kg trial bags. Bit more expensive but useful if the dog has issues and the the owner is not sure whether it will suit.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Aug 29, 2018, 12:37
Some news on the forthcoming Wilsons cold pressed dog food.
https://www.petbusinessworld.co.uk/news/feed/wilson-s-scores-a-hat-trick-at-pats
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Aug 29, 2018, 13:11
Thank you Seaweed. Look forward to seeing the full recipes. Glad to see that they are producing a 2.5kg bag.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Tinyplanets on Aug 30, 2018, 19:26
Yes good to see another cold pressed food in the smaller bags ;D
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Sep 24, 2018, 09:52
Wilsons Pet Food have launched their new website. Their cold pressed dog food is now available.
https://www.wilsonspetfood.co.uk/product-category/cold-pressed-dog-food/
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Oct 01, 2018, 11:50
Hello and welcome to the forum. David visited Markus Muhle earlier this year. His report is on this page. (https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/dog-foods/3/markus-muhle-and-other-cold-pressed-dog-food/679/150)  Your questions are quite specific and I am unable to advise. Possibly Beate Rothon of Gentle Pet Food might be able to help you. You could contact her via the Facebook page or by the website.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on Nov 08, 2018, 10:00
Made in the UK cold pressed dog food " Canis  & Co" https://www.canisandco.com/
Could not see smaller bags on the website, however http://www.pet-shopper.co.uk/products/dog-foods/canis-and-co-dog-food

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: AstraNine on Nov 08, 2018, 12:27
Firstly great that there's another British manufacturer of CP dog food. Secondly and oh dear yet another chicken flavour, no thanks. And thirdly not even grain free contains heat treated rice.

Do these manufacturers ever do any research on their potential market?
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Nov 08, 2018, 19:08
Thank you for the information Seaweed. I hope that we will see more variety in recipes in the future, otherwise they will all be alike save for price.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Nov 09, 2018, 18:51
Variations in price for similar products is a good thing if it results in competitive pricing.

Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Nov 21, 2018, 14:20
Cobbydog has brought out a new cold pressed product, Fish Supper. (https://www.cobbydog.com/products.aspx?product=Cold+pressed+dog+food) Scores 5.0 on the Instant Review Generator. Their original Optimum cold pressed food is in the Directory and scores 4.8. It comes in small, 1.5kg bags but is expensive - £14 plus P&P.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: COASTER on Nov 22, 2018, 20:01
Overview claims 49% fish but ingredients/analysis shows this 49% "fish meal". I also note beet pulp is in there too.

I note the welcome inclusion of turmeric albeit in the form of "Turmeriaid"  Personally I chose to feed my own turmeric/curcumin/pepper in, (suitable to me),  tablet form, with a daily dose acceptable to me & still without stained hands.
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Dec 20, 2018, 19:30
Guru has added Tasty Tucker (https://www.gurupetfood.com/product/tasty-tucker-cold-pressed-dog-food-8kg/)  to their range of cold pressed food. It is a brown rice version based on chicken/white fish. 
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Dottie on Jan 29, 2019, 17:06
Article about cold pressed food in K9 Magazine - What Is Cold Pressed Dog Food? (http://www.k9magazine.com/what-is-cold-pressed-dog-food/?fbclid=IwAR3VN5ORvi-rmlNJ1pzmZ7wgq2tt-kNExv7B20KLQ9VOloaCj0BFGU6bG2w)
Title: Re: Markus Muhle and other cold pressed dog food
Post by: Seaweed on May 05, 2019, 08:52
A tiny, tiny snippet of info, Tribal Pet Food are at Zoomark, they do not appear to have a cold pressed small breed product at the moment, however....
http://www.zoomark.it/en/directory/whats-new-guide/new-product-detail/3564.html?id_novita=1168