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Dog food and feeding => Dog foods => Topic started by: KatrinH on Oct 16, 2015, 20:04

Title: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 16, 2015, 20:04
Hi everyone!

I have a 2.5 year old Border Collie who unfortunately has a lot of food intolerances  :(  I recently moved to Scotland from Germany and am now looking for a new food for him (also because I am starting to be unhappy with his curent food company, as I had 2 bags that smelled funny and 1 in which I found corn in even though the food is supposed to be without corn!  >:(  ) I am very unfamiliar with the brands offered in the UK and which ones are decent, which one's to avoid, etc. so any help would be greatly appreciated!

He does not tolerate raw, and while I know it would be best, I unfortunately do not have enough time or finances at the moment to do a homecooked meal. Therefore I am looking at dry or wet food (I would consider adding some homemade). I want good quality for as cheap as possible.

He can have the following meats: duck, rabbit, turkey, fish. However, he CANNOT have any dairy, carrots or fruits. The fruits and carrot intolerances especially are already limiting a lot of dry food choices.

Do you have any suggestions or tips for brands/foods?

Thank you so much!
Katrin


PS: Oh he is about 20kg (ideal weight), and obviously quite active ;)
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Tinyplanets on Oct 16, 2015, 20:41
I got some samples of fish4dogs finest which my dog is enjoying. It doesn't seem to contain any of the ingredients that may cause issues but if unsure, they would be able to give you more information. It may be worth asking for some samples. I am sure there are lots of other foods but I don't have much experience with kibble.

You can have a search yourself on the dog food directory and the star rating will provide an indication of the quality of ingredients

*Go to the home page

*On the top right hand side you will see the quick search tool

*Enter the details for your dog and available budget

*Click on see more search options if you have any other requirements. You will see a list of further criteria for you search such as ‘avoid certain ingredients’ and ‘search by nutrient levels’

*Press go and the search should come up with suitable foods for you to look at.

I found this tool really useful. I was able to research further some of the options and therefore able to make a more informed choice for my dog.

You can also use the filter to the left hand side in the dog food directory section.  Either tools will help to narrow down your choices of suitable foods. Hope this helps
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 16, 2015, 22:15
Hi! Thanks so much for your reply. I just went to the fish4dogs homepage and what's the difference between the finest and working dog except price? Unless I missed something it looks the same to me.

Is it a reputable company? Is the fish smell strong? I tried a fish kibble ones and it just smelled so intensely like fish I could hardly handle it (dog has to be fed in the house, no separate room, either in my bedroom or the living room). He didn't tolerate that food anyway though as it contained mussels which turns out he can't have....

I did see the functions you described and tried it, but I struggle because I do not know these companies and how reputable they are. Since I am switching from my current kibble also because the company is turning out to have recurring issues I would like to know as much as I can about the company.

Hope this makes sense. 
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 17, 2015, 15:57
The Finest and the Working are equivalent in recipe but the latter is sold in plain plastic bags (they are heavy duty) and only in 15kg amounts.  Finest can be bought in 1.5kg and 6kg quantities and the bag is stronger and branded.  You mentioned that your dog enjoys agility and Fish4Dogs is sometimes the choice for owners who pursue this hobby, probably because of the omega oils and their beneficial effect on joints. 

You ask about the reputation of F4D - there is a review here in the Dog Food Directory. (http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0086/fish4dogs-finest-complete) 

I fed the product a few years ago and my youngest was raised on their puppy food - she had a gorgeous coat and did well on it.  She has recently been on raw food and her coat is looking awful so I have put her back on F4D and am hoping to see an improvement in a few months time.   The only problem is that it does have a high level of carbohydrate, as is pointed out in the review.  I don't feed anywhere near the recommended daily allowance because I don't want them to gain weight - one of them is particularly at risk of this.  I keep the quantity down and add extra protein in the form of cooked chicken, steamed white fish etc.   She has a minor stomach problem and that is why I chose to return to it earlier this year.  I am happy to say that she has had only one minor re-occurrence which was quickly and easily treated.  I soak her kibble and mix the weight control and adult versions to try to keep her weight in check.  I suppose the high carbs don't help with the weight issue but I am managing to keep it under control at the moment.  This wouldn't be a problem with your dog as he is probably a lot more active than mine.

Obviously it does smell of fish but I have found that it is not an issue once you have got used to it.  My observation is that the dogs tend to smell slightly of fish at first then within about a week or so it tends to disappear.

Have a good look at their website and also their Facebook page.  If you plan to try the product maybe go for the Finest in a smaller quantity. You can choose between white fish and salmon. Mine have the Superior - that is a salmon variety.  I choose that because it has green lipped mussel and spirulina, the latter being good for digestion AFAIK.   The seaweed is kelp which is excellent for coat and skin; it seems to have made a difference in my dog (the one with the stomach problems). Her coat wasn't very good but it has improved enormously.  My friend has seen the same effect in her Labrador although it does take a few months to see the difference. 

For a dog with intolerances it might be worth trying because it is a simple formula and fish is very easily digested.  If you do try F4D look out for the offers because they have them every Friday. This week it is Working Dog small bite.   Also, you will need to weigh the food as it is quite heavy in comparison with some other types of kibble. 
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 17, 2015, 21:39
Thanks so much for your reply!

What do you think of the Wainwright trays? Looks like they have few ingredients as well. I was looking at the German brand "Hermanns", but the one he can have has only 5% protein content which seems low to me. They do sell 100% meat tins as well so I can add protein, but it would make it pricier.

I am tempted to try him on a wet food, just because he has had mostly kibble (only tins he ever got was when he was on Hills I/D, which I stopped because of the yucky ingredients...), maybe that will make a difference even?

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: COASTER on Oct 17, 2015, 22:17
You asked re Wainrights trays......

My daughters 2 year old Pug seems to do  well on the Wainrights trays (duck) .

I researched on here & elsewhere before we introduced it. We change to an alternative ingredient occasionally so as to avoid intolerance.

I think they claim hypoallergenic for all or some & also do grain free.

It certainly reviews fairly well on here & I couldnt find anything else comparable for similar or lesser cost when we inroduced it last year.

Dont dismiss proper research on mixers if wanting same to go with a suitable wet complete. The listed  ingredients of some are allegedly vague to say the least & some raised a question mark or two for me. No good feeding an acceptable wet complete and adding unknown rubbish to the bowl.

We feed laughing dog mixer wheat free I think. We were feeding the Burns hypoallergenic mixer but it was significantly more costly. I havent mentioned our daily feed ammount as Collie & Pug  feed needs are clearly worlds apart.


Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 17, 2015, 22:24
Thanks for your reply.

May I ask why you are feeding a mixer if the wet food is complete?

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: COASTER on Oct 17, 2015, 23:40
A: Mixer added for Variety, meal enjoyment, Dental maintenance (we clean teeth also) & to give small increase to overall feed ammount......He has 1/3 of a tray per feed, (2 per day), plus 3 or 4  biscuits each feed. Half a tray per feed a little too much for the relatively small dog currently in  household fed on this.

Method is to some extent a left over from learned old school dog feeding going back to 70's when I was a kid & the household dog (ironically a Border Collie) had tins of chum and winalot mixer......Not my feed choice then & there were far less dog foods available then. ( ironically back then I seem to recall as a kid being told the breeders feeding recomendation for the Border Collie back was fresh game amongst other things ! )

No real nutritional need for a mixer.

Some may regard our use of mixer here as not needed. That said I have in past seen some a dog food customers buy cheap kibble to use as mixer with tinned wet. (Personally I would never consider doing  that.

I believe the proprietor of CSJ owned & worked Border Collies. (Keri or Ceri if my memory correct). It may seem obvious but bear in mind they & other sellers sell many foods under one brand name but composition varies greatly. I say that as on other dog forums I see some saying they feed a certain brand name but not actually mentioning the actual named food. She also used to sell Autarky kibbles which arguably take some beating for those watching costs & keen to avoid poorer quality foods for similar cost. Essentially CSJ proprietor understands Collies.

The Labrador (3 year old ) here is on Akela Fish (dry complete) but a very recent switch so I cant really comment other than to say no issues thus far, decent stamina & acceptable waste output relative to suitable feed ammount. My buyers needs were fairly specific in wanting fish as protein souce, low carbs,  no grain , no white potato,  higher omega 3 than Omega 6 & other composition from a dry complete. 

If low carbs & grain free weren't important factors in my dry complete  choice I would have also seriously considered trying him on a decent cold pressed food.

What suits one dog might not suit another.

Not wshing to stray widely off topic so will briefly show my appreciation for Border Collies ( in my experience somewhat unique, highly intelligent & very trainable...but you already knew that of course )

Good Luck :)
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 18, 2015, 07:08
Wainwright's grain free wet food scores 4.8 on the Dog Food Directory (http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0877/wainwrights-trays-adult-grain-free).  I had a short spell of feeding it to my dogs but not long enough to evaluate it properly.  The lamb version made two of them vomit but I have a feeling that I may have given lamb in some other food with the same result.  I avoid it now.   

As for mixer, this food is complete so shouldn't need it.  As it stands, the carbohydrate is on the low side of average.  By adding mixer it will raise the carbs which may be useful for an extra burst of energy if the dog has some work to do.  Many years ago, before all the dog food brands started flooding the market owners used to the feed their dogs tinned food and a handful of mixer so to a certain extent the practise is ingrained (probably more so in older folk like me).  However, the wet food in those days was nowhere near the quality of some of them that we see now, Wainwright's included.  The product is low in fibre so if your dog gets a bit constipated then mixer might help redress that, particularly if you use a wholegrain one. 

Some time ago I had a few months of feeding my lot a quality wet food plus a small amount of mixer and they piled the weight on.  I had an awful job getting them down.  Your dog might not have a problem with weight control but I would advise to weigh the food just as you would with dry, at least until you get used to it. If money is an issue, you might find Wainwright's a bit pricey, particularly for your size of dog.

BTW the figures that you quote in the Hermann's are probably as served.  When you are researching wet food you need to compare the dry weight of the product.  The calculations are already done on the Dog Food Directory and can be seen on the dials at the bottom of each reviewed product.  If you cannot find this particular dog food you can work the dry weight out yourself - there is a thread
here (http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/forum/general-discussion/1/dry-weight-comparing-foods/688/msg955#msg955) which will help you with this.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: COASTER on Oct 18, 2015, 11:29
.....developing what Dottie correctly said highlights that mixer adjustments, (minor ones with the small dog I feed) , can be used to tweak carb input & dog weight management (particularly when on this relatively low carb wet complete)

Just as with humans I feel we should consider food input relevant to age,  energy output & body condition.  (Rather than sticking to a rigid daily amount we don't adjust or tweak).

On a side note I have recently been researching pros and cons of simple carbs within context of the dry complete I feed the Lab. The carb reláted conversation deveoped within this topic is now rightfully causing me to re-evaluate the pros & cons of adding mixer to wet complete.

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 18, 2015, 12:37
I would be feeding the regular trays and not the grain free as my pup cannot have any carrots or fruits. It still has a rating of 4.5 though. These are the nutrient values: Protein 10.5%, Crude Fibre 5.1%, Oils & Fats 5.5%, Crude Ash 3%, Moisture 75%.

Wainwright actually seems to be the cheapest wet food based on the directory (I searched for wet foods and the rest of the filters I need and then input chepeast ranking..). Pricier than dry food, but maybe it is worth it considering he has had mostly dry and still shows issues  :(

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 18, 2015, 12:50
Just did the math and Hermanns does have lower protein content than e.g. the Wainwrights. If I did it right ;)

I am not really concerned about weight, I always rather struggle keeping weight on  ;D
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 18, 2015, 14:15
If the dial is correct, the product is very low in carbohydrate. That would be desirable for some. However, in view of the fact that you struggle to keep the weight on your dog you may need to supplement. You will just need to try it and see. Wet food is a good choice for dogs with intolerance issues because the formulas are usually much simpler than dry products.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 18, 2015, 14:44
What would you supplement in our case and how much?

Could I for example try ad feed the salmon and potato in addtion to either turkey or duck, so i.e. do 5 days of one and 2 days the one higher in carbs. Or should I add carbs homemade (e.g. just cook some potatoes). 

I would obviously start out with only one to see how he tolerates it and then try a second type...

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 18, 2015, 15:19
Using wet food as a topper is what some people do. They give a slightly lower amount of kibble then add some wet food for flavour. It's useful for fussy eaters. For a dog with intolerances I would not be inclined to do this because it's best to keep it simple. It's also more difficult to determine what is causing any reaction that they might have. With my stomach problem dog I've learned the hard way to stick with the food she has because when I've tried something different it has affected her negatively. It's a plain diet but it works.

Looking at the Wainwright's, the protein and fat are high but it is low in carbs so if you need to raise that, the logical thing to do is to supplement the brown rice that it already has. Give it well cooked though. You could also consider well cooked oats or perhaps sweet potato. Good quality whole meal mixer might be something to consider.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 18, 2015, 15:50
Oh the salmon and potatoe is also a wet food frm wainwrights, sorry if that wasn't clear.

But that makes sense. Thank you so much for all your help! I'll probably try the wainwrights turkey and rice for a start and then see how things go.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 18, 2015, 16:20
I think it is good when there is more than one variety within a range because then you can vary the diet a little without too much risk of upsetting the dog.  In your case I reckon it would be best to stick with the turkey and rice just for now and if all goes well, introduce the salmon and potato when you are satisfied that your dog is OK.  It looks like a good food and hopefully he will do well on it.  Please let us know how you get on with it, especially as we haven't had anyone review this product on the forum itself. 
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 18, 2015, 16:26
Will do. I am going to go buy some tomorrow probably. Fingers crossed he tolerates it, because I am so sick of trying to figure out what to feed  ;)
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: COASTER on Oct 18, 2015, 19:55
The mixer consideration comments by Dottie ironically might bring my suggestion of mixer (I currently use) with Wainrights trays back into consideration  ;)

I haven't posted a full review on it before as I am Neebie, but no issues here on Wainwrights duck & rice. No reactons, dog likes it, coat good, plenty of energy (2hr off lead walks a non issue for the Pug on this).

I acccept Pug & BC are miles apart but I consider the food is hard to beat when composition & price considered against other wet complete foods.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 19, 2015, 07:37
I had not looked at the Wainwright's wet with brown rice. I can't really understand why they include 'brown rice, minimum 5%.' It doesn't really tell you how much carbohydrate it actually has, with the result that the dry weight dial gives a reading of zero carbs. I've seen this before in wet food - Natures Menu pouches being one.  If anyone can find an explanation for this I would like to hear it.

There's a lot of anti carb sentiment these days but each dog is different and carbs in the form of  a small amount of good quality mixer may be of use to an active dog that doesn't gain weight easily. They can also sate appetite in the same way as for us when we eat a meal inclusive of some starch such as potatoes/rice.

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: chrishordley on Oct 19, 2015, 09:32
If you used cold pressed in Germany you can buy online from Zooplus and it is very well priced. I am not absolutely convinced of the science recommending it over any other commercial product but you can mix with raw and mine do well on it as part of a wide diet. The book K9 Kitchen by Monica Segal makes authoritative reading as she started her personal research from owning a dog with extreme allergy/intolerance issues. She dismisses the bandwagons and myths but her recommendations are quite technical but are based on thorough science. I am starting research on nutrigenomics, hadn't heard of it, which is microbiology and trying to understand the role of our gut bacteria.  Overwhelmingly these scientists are finding that good bacteria are being reduced by over processed food, antibiotic overuse, including in rearing of meat animals and that prebiotics can encourage the good guys in humans. Dogs are of course less omnivore but kefir or other fermented milk in size appropriate dose may help reduce reaction and increase uptake of nutrients and should not have lactose intolerance problems. I have IBS hence my interest.
I agree with Dottie about keeping it simple, really simple as unless you see the ingredients you can't be absolutely sure. The gluten free products mean not produced in the same factory ! I can buy grass reared ox heart etc but know that many folk can't, and cook or not cook is not terribly important. Forthglade wet feeds are produced in Devon and probably( I can check) take from the abbatoirs in Southwest which would mean better reared meat. I wonder where Wainwright etc source theirs. Grain fed stock kept indoors have lower Omega 3 levels than outdoor grass reared and O3 helps reduce inflammation.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 19, 2015, 18:47
Thanks for your input Chris. Unfortunately my dog does not tolerate raw at all :( We've tried :( I do one day want to do homecooked as I see its benefits (especially knowing where you get things from and knowing exactly what's in the food you make), it is just not an option at the moment.

I did buy the wainwrights turkey today. It is the cheapeast wet food available that looks decent and contains only things he should tolerate. He had his first of it tonight, will see what his tummy says and if I have to get up in the middle of the night  ;D

On a positive note: I am relatively certain it is food and not something else now as I put him on rice, egg and salmon (cooked) the last 1.5 days and diarrhea was gone immediately. Definitely NOT going to feed that dry food again...
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 21, 2015, 18:38
Update so far: He has been on Wainwrights since Monday night and so far so good. He loves it (first times I fed him, he would gobble it down, then sit there and whine about it being gone already..). Interestingly his poops have become very very small in volume and rock hard and super dry (so completely the opposite from his watery diarrhea). I added some water to the wet food tonight to see if that helps (he did not drink too much yesterday). Hopefully that will help his constipation. Wonder what is in this food that may cause it if it is not the water intake?

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 22, 2015, 06:51
It is normal for the stool composition to change markedly when high meat content food like this is given.  Lots of people, particularly the raw feeders believe this to be a positive outcome of giving a product that has less  carbohydrate or 'filler'.  Personally, I don't see it as such - in fact if a human being was passing stools like this they'd be high tailing it to the chemist for some laxatives!   The stool might improve once the dog's digestion has adjusted to the new product.  If you are concerned about it then you need to add something to help bulk up the stool.  IIRC the food has brown rice in it so the logical thing would be to top that up with some more, well cooked.  Alternatively you could try well cooked oatmeal or sweet potato.  Have a look at the chart here (http://www.protexin.com/userfiles/file/poop_points_for_web.pdf).  It is suggested that three to four indicates good digestive health.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 22, 2015, 19:08
I've just received some advice about management of constipation in dogs.  Apparently cooked pumpkin (not the sort you get in tins for pie filling), can be very helpful in alleviating this.  At this time of year you certainly shouldn't have any problem getting hold of this product.  It might be worth a try if your dog can tolerate it.  The other piece of advice was that small dry stools can be a sign of underfeeding but in your case this is unlikely as I assume you will be going with the recommended daily allowance.  Hopefully things will settle down with your dog - it is early days and you have not been able to transition from the old food gradually as one would normally do. 
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: COASTER on Oct 23, 2015, 00:08
Assuming your dog has plenty of fresh water available I might be trying to encourage a littlle more of same, (which I appreciate can be near impossible with a reluctant drinker). You can add some to the feed if you wish.

I am looking at this very simply & on basis the food is okay for the dog and the dog is healthy on this food....obciously it is important to consider these factors too.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 24, 2015, 07:25
Katrinh - it is quite normal for dogs to drink less when on wet or raw food.  If you look at the moisture content of your chosen food, you will see that it is quite high. 
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 24, 2015, 16:25
Thanks everyone. I will give him some more time to adjust for now as really he has only been on it for less than a week.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 29, 2015, 17:49
Stools are still really hard and dry, even though I added some brown rice and blended green beans (fibre) to his diet. I bought some Wainwright's salmon and potatoe today and will try that, just to see what happens.

I mean, I rather have harder stools than constant diarrhea, but he does seem a bit uncomfortable pooping, so will just experiment further.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Oct 29, 2015, 19:08
It's a shame that this has not improved with the addition of extra fibre.  Is it the salmon and potato wet that you are adding?  Hope that it helps.  If not, perhaps a small amount of Wainwright's dry salmon and potato might help. 
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: LS25Lee on Oct 30, 2015, 18:42
Hi Katrin

I've had good results with wainwrights...I've tried every dry flavour (well not me personally)... My dog likes all of them..... The funny thing with the salmon is my schnauzer is obviously very hairy... His beard stinks of fish so I've moved him onto duck :)... He doesn't mind he loves it.

Dotties comment about pumpkin is something that I've wanted to try. Apparently if you use the canned pumpkin (pure pumpkin not pie filling) it can help to ease constipation and can help to firm up stools... Sounds like a miracle in a can.

When Zeus had a particular bad case of the runs when he was a lot younger I drove to numerous supermarkets but couldn't get it. They sell it online though and I believe a desert spoon full in the food has great effects whether you need things to be firmer or looser.

Best of luck with everything
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Oct 31, 2015, 20:16
Where do you get the pumpkin from? I couldn't find it in local stores.

Also, since I read something about food and behavior in a different thread. Ranger lately has started to run up to other dogs again, even during fetch. He is not good with most other dogs. He used to do this as a younger dog when I first rescued him, but has since stopped at least during fetch time (no guarantees if there is no ball envolved but that's why he is on lead if we are not playing ball). He needs his running time, so we cannot go without it. I was wondering if it is just a "step back" as it sometimes happens, goign through a phase...but maybe there is some relation to the food? I don't think it is likely, but I also never thought of food influencing these kinds of behaviors that much?
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Nov 01, 2015, 09:23
I too have looked for tinned pumpkin and couldn't find any but I didn't explore all of the local supermarkets. Being November, there plenty of fresh ones of course. Regarding the behaviour, I don't know if there is a connection with the new food. When I have had mine on this kind of product I haven't noticed any change in them. The obvious answer is that he is feeling a lot better and more energetic so this behaviour is a result of that. I think the best solution is to manage it. Maybe consider additional training or walking him somewhere that has fewer dogs. You should be able to get on top of it with a bit of thought and a change in strategy. However, there is always the safety measure of using a long training lead. It needs to be attached to a harness, not a collar but as it trails on the ground, you can always put a foot on it to fetch him back if he isn't listening to you.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Nov 01, 2015, 10:58
Oh, I have done long lead training and he is always on harness as he slips out of collars way too easily. Most likely it is just a phase again, we got it under control when he was younger, so maybe just slipping back to it, for whatever reason. Frustrating, but that's how parenting is, right?  ;D

He definitely enjoys his food more again. Not as excited as he was for when he was on raw (well he also always had different foods), but still quite happy, especially as I have been adding in beans or the fish food. I mean, I would be happier too compared to eating the same kibble...
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Nov 01, 2015, 11:14
It is good news that your dog is doing so much better on the wet food. Hopefully he will continue to do well and enjoy his food.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Tinyplanets on Nov 01, 2015, 13:21
My dog isn't too good with other dogs. She is okay with dogs she knows and at one stage was off lead and socialising well. However,  she started to confront dogs she was scared of. She won't respond to me when she is in this state so we don't go to areas with lots of dogs. It is just too much for her. I watch her body language closely and if she is fairly relaxed, I will let her have a quick hello with a passing dog. (3 second rule with a stranger dog) She has off lead time in areas we can see all around. If another dog appears, she goes back on her lead. She has better periods. I find winter tricky because the traffic in the dark makes her more anxious and likely to snap as she is on edge anyway. I praise her all the time for polite behaviour around dogs. I don't think she will ever be completely relaxed but she is a rescue and I will never know her full history. Excepting her for herself and managing it was key for less stressful walks.  I did used to feel bad about her not being able to run around but we play lots of games inside and she also has puzzle toys which exercise the brain. We also go for long walks when we can.

I don't think it is food related to be honest. The more I understand her, the more I can usually tell which factors will make her worse. EG Darkness, rain, Noisy motorbikes, One encounter which scares her will often lead to overreaction with any other unknown dog that day. Understanding that it is fear related helped a lot too.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: LS25Lee on Nov 01, 2015, 16:58
I've only managed to see tinned pumpkin on amazon.... I couldn't find it in any stores. When I looked online tesco apparently stock it but I went to a very large tesco and couldn't find it
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Nov 01, 2015, 19:39
Tinyplanets: That is exactly what I am doing. He is a rescue as well and I do know he grew up with an aggressive GSD. I manage the same ways and only let him off lead when I can observe the area. The past times it just happened that someone came around the far far corner as he was fetching his ball and he took off (he was far away from me). Like I said, it is "old" behavior that I had managed, so likely a phase of returning to it. Hoping it will get better again. Unfortunately the areas I can play here are always likely to have dogs walk by (lots of dogs here), which is fine as long as I see them before he does, and not playing fetch at all is not an option (he absolutely needs his full blown run or he will go crazy). But I am sure I can get it managed again. I make sure to be extra aware and if it does happen consequence is we stop playing immediately, so he should get it eventually again.

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: LS25Lee on Nov 01, 2015, 20:05
Personally I'll never let my dog off lead anywhere.... He ran off once and was almost on train tracks. The only off lead action he'll ever have is on a 10 meter long lead where I can control the situation.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: COASTER on Nov 02, 2015, 01:00
Mindful we are currently off topic but I would enjoy walks far less if ours were unpredictable off lead. I appreciate off lead walking with solid recall is an issue for many....maaybe worth reading a book called Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson. Even old dogs with a history can learn new tricks.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Schnauday on Nov 02, 2015, 21:00
I've seen tinned pumpkin in Waitrose and Tesco. However I find sweet potato works in the same way. Cook in microwave like you would a potato.

If you specifically want pumpkin buy it now while in season, microwave the flesh then mash it up. Spread it on a baking tray with non-stick bottom and dry at low temp in oven. It turns a bit leathery once dry. Cut into pieces and can be frozen and reconstituted with water as and when needed.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Nov 03, 2015, 07:44
I have just received a message/comment regarding the difference between pumpkin and sweet potato:
"Sweet potato doesn't work in the same way as pumpkin, it is carbohydrate rich. Butternut squash, however does but the advice to buy pumpkin now and dehydrate or cook/freeze is a great one."
Thank you to the member for pointing this out. 
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Schnauday on Nov 03, 2015, 18:02
I have just received a message/comment regarding the difference between pumpkin and sweet potato:
"Sweet potato doesn't work in the same way as pumpkin, it is carbohydrate rich. Butternut squash, however does but the advice to buy pumpkin now and dehydrate or cook/freeze is a great one."
Thank you to the member for pointing this out.

Well that got me intrigued.
Why doesn't sweet potato work in the same way as pumpkin ? I presumed fibre content

How similar in content and nutrition are sweet potato, pumpkin, and butternut squash ?
I use a nutritional website for working out menus for my dog so I looked them up per 100g of raw flesh

                                  Sweet Potato                                         Pumpkin                                Butternut squash
calories                             86                                                           26                                          63
Fibre                                  12%                                                         2%                                       11%                                               
Protein                                2g                                                          1g                                           1g
Carbohydrate                   20g                                                         6g                                          16g

Which I thought was really interesting as pumpkin has hardly any fibre in it, and butternut squash is actually closer to sweet potato than pumpkin nutrition wise in 3 of the 4 areas, one of which is carbohydrate. Nutrition wise I would say sweet potato and butternut squash are similar rather than pumpkin and butternut squash.

Any other thoughts any one ?
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Nov 06, 2015, 20:35
He is still rather constipated  :( But I am just now adding some pumpkin, so I am going to wait for a little longer to see if there is any effect. It does make me wonder though if the food is generally not good for him?

Part of me thinks it is "funny" how I went from a diarrhea dog to the exact opposite... ???

He is also quite stressed lately as people here have started shooting fireworks on Halloween and have not stopped since. Every evening there are at least a couple going off  >:(
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Nov 07, 2015, 06:44
Yes, the firework season is very bad for our furry friends.  Happily, it is almost over.  When I have given similar wet food (and raw) to mine, the stool has been as you describe.  I had hoped that by now your dog would have adjusted to it but it seems not.  IMO you have two choices - stick with it for a bit longer and experiment with top ups of fibre containing food or switch to dry food.  Have a think about it. 
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Dottie on Nov 07, 2015, 10:13
Reference: Schnauday's post, 3rd November 2015:

I have to confess that I have not researched the nutritional values of butternut squash, pumpkin and sweet potato so cannot offer a comment at this point.  However, I have just received a message from a retailer who has knowledge of this subject and here are those observations:

Quote
1. Butternut squash,  amount Per 100 grams:[/color]
Calories 45 % Daily Value*
Total Fat 0.1 g 0% Saturated fat 0 g 0% Polyunsaturated fat 0 g Monounsaturated fat 0 g Cholesterol 0 mg 0%
Sodium 4 mg 0%
Potassium 352 mg 10%
Total Carbohydrate 12 g 4% Dietary fibre 2 g

2. Google search give slightly different results, squash is part way between the other two. Pumpkin and squash are from the same family, whereas sweet potato is higher in carbs and is more akin to a turnip.

3. The important component for regulating stool consistency is soluble fibre, all 3 contain this is good proportions, but  the squashes are lower carb/calorie.

4. Our "magic recipe" for stool problems is actually sweet potato, butternut squash, carrots and peas with some chicken or white fish, all cooked together and pureed to aid digestion.

There is some useful information there and I thank the member who passed this information on.  Number four may be of particular use to our original poster, KatrinH.

I suppose that one could argue that if one purchases a complete food, it should not require supplementation to enable the dog to produce a normal stool.  My personal view is that a nicely formed, easy to pass stool is a fundamental requirement of any product and that it is one of the indications that the food is suiting the dog.  I refer again to the Protexin chart Poop Points (http://www.protexin.com/userfiles/file/poop_points_for_web.pdf).
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: Tinyplanets on Nov 07, 2015, 13:19
Personally I had noticed that, on a complete raw food, my dog sometimes struggled to have a complete bowel movement comfortably. I hadn't given it much thought as she still went daily but as she was losing weight, I started to add a little brown rice to her diet, Straight away, her stools softened and she passed them with ease. They are still easy to pick up. She will also get sweet potato when we have it. (some in the slow cooker right now :)) I am not too worried about the higher carb levels because we are hoping that will help her hold her weight. I suppose as with all things, it is whatever works best for the individual dog.
Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Nov 07, 2015, 13:39
Thanks Dottie. Unfortunately that food is not an option as he cannot have carrots.

I will try finding sweet potato in a tin. I cannot eat sweet potato as they make me sick and even the smell is too much for me to handle, but a tin might work, since I don't have to cook it. I wouldn't mind extra carbs to put weight on...

Title: Re: Food for dog with lots of intolerances
Post by: KatrinH on Nov 15, 2015, 11:39
Well I don't want to jinx it by saying anything too soon, but I switched him again to the Hermanns duck and sweet potato. It is only 50% meat and 50% sweet potato and squash and evening prim rose oil. It's organic (which wasn't why I chose it, it just happened to be second cheapest after Wainwrights...). But so far he is doing MUCH better! No super hard and crumbly stools anymore, much less quantity and consistency seems really good so far. I added some cooked and mashed potatos with two eggs yesterday because he needs some weight back on and that seemed to go well to.  Fingers crossed this will be settling it for a while now!