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Messages - Tigger69

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General discussion / Re: Warning about corn on the cob
« on: Mar 16, 2017, 13:08 »
Thank you for posting the PDF Red Akita, very informative and good to keep on hand

Dottie MM on fb have replied to me previously and kindly sent me some samples a while back, unfrortunately of late they have not been so responsive, I questioned the age at which the red deer venison variety could be fed from as I couldn't seem to find the information, they have yet to reply to me on that, hopefully they will respond to your question as it would be interesting to have there input.

Both my two are needing to loose a bit of weight at the minute so they are having a reduction in their normal quantities, I bought them a activity memory trainer for Christmas, press the button and they receive a treat - although Zak doesn't always like pressing the button, Ella is quite happy pressing the button and letting Zak get the reward by her weight gain though I'd say she hasn't been keeping herself short of extra treats. :)

Hi Red Akita and thank you for the welcome and replies.
You are correct I am not a great fan of Corn or Maize, we previously had a GSD who had a allergic reaction to a well known off the shelf kibble - we researched and learn't so are a lot more careful in what we feed our present two Kees , Corn and Maize are both ingredients I tend to stay away from. Although I understand the content is just above 5% this is what gave me doubts along with the drop in rating to 4.1 in comparison to the adult variety of 4.4 but from what I have read the corn could explain the drop but something which I will refer to Beate as Dottie suggests.
 Again thank you for your input it always helps knowing I am on the right track. 

Hi Dottie and thank you for your reply,  I will indeed check the quantities for the pup, our two adults are fed below the recomended guidleines of kibble at 278g a day, Zak is on 190g and Ella is 160g which maintains their ideal weight with additional toppers and veg /fruit treats I honestly dread to think the size of them both if we stuck to the recommendations.
 I am planning on introducing cooked chicken first off but will have to wait and see how the pups develop and the stage our breeder is at with the litter before hand over - she does usually have them on chicken though, so hopefully that will cover the protein shortfall in the kibble.
Consistency I hadn't actually considered, MM is cold pressed so will not swell and soften unlike the kibble our breeder feeds - thank you Dottie :)
 I do need to research a bit more on what toppers can be introduced and at what age for the pup, once I have done that I will contact Beate Rothon and see what advise she gives and will of course let you know. Thanks again Dottie :)

Hi all,
 I presently feed my two Keeshonden Markus Muhle Black Angus adult (rated 4.4) which both dogs love and we are happy to feed, both dogs also have fruit, veg, cooked chicken and sardines included in there diet.
 However we are getting a new addition to our pack soon and therefore have been looking at kibble for the puppy. MM Black Angus adult can be fed from 2 months of age and comparing this to the Junior variety I can't see much of a difference in the ingredients although the instant review generator gives it a score of 4.1 and highlights corn as a ingredient which is not great.
Presuming the Junior variety is designed with growing puppies in mind I'm a bit concerned IF i was to introduce the pup straight on to the adult variety at 8 weeks old, she may not be getting everything she needs nutritionally, what do you guys think?

Hi Dottie,

 In truth, my problems with potentially raw feeding are probably unavoidable and in all honesty I don't want to start down a route which I may not be able to sustain.

I certainly will look into home cooking for them both but as you say I'd have to research this as I would need to be confident I'm feeding them a balanced diet, one of my original reasons for posting here was to try and expand options for Ella's treats/extra's as at the moment she's munching through carrots, cucumber sweet potato and fruit while we have her on reduced protein, trying to ensure the only protein she is getting is in her main meals, luckily they both love their fruit and veg but I am worried they can have too much of a good thing and obviously if I was to home cook for them, this again would come into play. Its definitely something I would consider if I could get enough nutritional information to be confident in what I was providing for them. 
I'd thought about making their biscuit type treats and I use a dehydrator to make their training/show ring treats but had not considered home cooking for their meals and it is well worth thinking about Thanks for the suggestion Dottie  :)

Thank you Dottie.

It is very true, eliminating the cause of Ella's itchy skin is proving difficult, Think with my previous GSD I hit lucky as we found his problem on the first attempt, changed his food and within days we could see the improvement.

 Ella's problems I think maybe a combination of issue's, regardless though she is constantly improving at present, however if this proves to be due to a total reduction in her overall protein/ removing a specific protein, environmental or behavioral remains to be seen. At the moment I am happy she is not so uncomfortable, her skin is back to perfect and her fur is growing back so I'm counting my blessing.
Thank you for your suggestions I will certainly have a look at Yumega plus, Sebocalm and the Seleen for future reference. I have been using the Wildwash shampoo on both of our Kees, although I recently tried Neem oil on Ella's sores, left it for 24 hours then gave her a bath with a teaspoon dissolved in the water, have to say although it has to have the worst smell ever it did the trick.

I spent a period of time yesterday, researching a little more in to raw food, which for me is a large step, maybe I'm starting to persuade myself  :D

Finding professional groomers with experience of grooming/ managing a Kees coat especially here in the UK is no easy task. However I am really lucky that we have a friend who shows her own Kees and is a professional groomer so between her and my breeder I'd be kicked in to touch if I let my two go even in the slightest lol Luckily, Ella loves being groomed and quite often pushes her brother off the grooming table, telling me she wants done again..might be more about the treats than the grooming itself admittedly ha ha.

Again thank you for your suggestions Dottie, I will definitely have a look at the products you mentioned  :)

Interesting read Thanks

Feeding dogs with health problems / Re: New to the forum
« on: Jul 08, 2016, 23:15 »
No Coaster I certainly did not take your comments the wrong way and as I said, I understand your reference and am totally aware I've been trying to juggle too much for too long and it is certainly taking it's toll, hence I'm in a need of a bottle of those chill pills  ;D Being able to just type everything down and receive input from you and Tinyplannets has helped me regain perspective, especially knowing their is no ulterior motive here.

You have actually also given me extra food for thought, I don't think I over fuss either of them but dogs do pick up on our emotions, this is especially true with the Kees breed and Ella reads me like a book, something I should probably be more aware of and watch.

If raw food does become something I need to consider then I will look at your suggestion as for me now, I have to use gloves for handling our own meat and believe me when I say the smell of raw meat/chicken/fish is not something I do well with, hard to believe many years ago I fed my dogs raw green tripe and rice  ::)

Thanks again :)
Hope you had a good shift at work and can enjoy the weekend

Feeding dogs with health problems / Re: New to the forum
« on: Jul 08, 2016, 13:26 »
Thanks Coaster, Your right everyone has advice to give, the hard part is mentally sorting it through, even a certain MD/owner of a small dog food company  likes to give his sales pitch and as you have said sorting the wood from the tree's can be hard.
In all honesty your right in your reference to a little manic, but we can only juggle so much at one time, sometimes you just need to step back OR in this case see it written down which is why you helped.  I have to say, no matter how many dogs I have loved/cared for over the years, the bond with Ella is something above and behond and that doesn't help me with a logical approach.

Least said about RC imo the better, I will certainly have a look at Lupo Sensitiv 20/8, raw food would not be my ideal choice, we had a Kees house guest for a couple of weeks who was fed raw so I'm not saying that lightly but I'd rather not if their are other options.

Both Zak n Ella have indicators of a nervous/anxious disposition, Zak's are subtle but they are there.
Ella's bite mark has gone completely, i am convinced it was a insect bite of some sort and not a flea or tick in fact at present her skin is fantastic, her undercoat is growing back and she only gets to wear the Elizabethan collar/lampshade when I have to leave her, just in case she has the urge to bite. Yesterday she showed a few times that she had the urge to bite but she didn't actually do it.
Again thanks for all your input, my brain feels a wee bit tidier now  :o and I will keep you up to date :)

Tinyplanets thank you, I agree I think the bite/reaction definitely triggered a new cycle.

Feeding dogs with health problems / Re: New to the forum
« on: Jul 08, 2016, 08:55 »
I have edited the above post this morning Coaster  ::) thought a few hours sleep may have helped collect my thoughts  ;D

Feeding dogs with health problems / Re: New to the forum
« on: Jul 07, 2016, 23:43 »
Thank you for your reply Tinyplanets.  As you, I had not considered/heard of the possibility of too much protein causing Ella's skin irritation, in fact as dogs are carnivore's and therefore built to digest animal protein I actually originally took it with a pinch of salt despite being told by an experienced Kees breeder (not my own I may add). However that said we have done so many elimination periods with her, another 8 weeks specifically working on reducing her total protein intake is worth trying. I do have to add, we are currently on week 3 and she is improving, her wounds have healed and her undercoat is growing back, although we have been at week 5 before, thinking we'd nailed the problem only to get back to square one. Please, if you do think of anything else low protein which I can add to her diet for treats then let me know Thanks again  :)

Hi Coaster and thank you for your in depth reply, I didn't want to bombard everyone with the whole long story on the introduction page, unfortunately I ended up having to rush out to hospital with my mam so things have been a bit manic.  I can't promise to be concise or answer all your questions tonight, my brain is on overload but I will work over your helpful reply and get back to you. First things first though, I am still not 100% convinced my girl is suffering from food allergies but we have worked through tons of possibilities, Ella has had a tendency to bite herself since we bought her and her brother home, it was originally the fur on her paws, we fed her according to the breeders diet sheet, which was Royal Canine medium junior plus a small amount of chicken breast, their was also goats milk and a few other additional items which she could be given, however she had very loose stools, so we took her back to just basic RC almost immediately, without any extra's and then gently reintroduced chicken breast She did continue to itch but not to the extent she has since.   I changed her over to Markus Muhle black angus at around the 12 month mark and her general condition improved, no excessive scratching or biting until the last few days of summer last year, cut a long story short she started trying bite a certain spot specifically on her back, when I checked her she had a small tiny lump with a hole in the center, it looked just like a midge bite would on us and it was obviously driving her crazy, she refused to go out in the back garden for the toilet but she would go out front or on her walks she was literally scared to go over the back door step, when she starts on her biting sessions now, it always starts with the same place on her back...hence why I have thought previously this problem maybe behavioral/habit or a combination of things. Only recently have we introduced sweet potato, carrots, cucumber, apple and any other fruit/veg so we know we are safe with these, we have previously ceased all her manufactured treats at one point or another. As I mentioned above we had eliminated chicken and eggs for 7 weeks and thought we had found the problem only for her to go back to square one, elimination is a long process and we still have some way to go. Her brother and her are inseparable and is he absolutely fine other than the usual scratching when he is blowing his coat, I am one of those who doesn't believe in over medicating my dogs however they have both been getting regular flea treatment for the last 10 months, dog bedding is not a issue, neither of them will use a bed except to play with, downstairs floors are all laminate/tile so no cleaning chemicals and she is barred from upstairs at present because that is where she runs if she wants to bite out of my line of sight,  excess heat is a possibility but she will not wear a cool coat or even lie on a cool mat, Ella has a tight double curl tail and in general you can feel the increase in heat under her tail. We have tried flowers of sulphur, organic apple cider vinegar, coconut oil, sardines (only ceased now while she is on reduced protein) They are both groomed at the very least weekly, their is no build up, shampoo was specifically recommended by a groomer friend for itchy dogs, wildwash for itchy dogs,  although her last bath was in Neem oil and the shampoo (not for the flea aspect but simply because its fab for healing her skin and softening any scabs) Shaving/clipping Kees is a definite No No unless we have no other option, for a Kees, Ella's coat is one of the easiest I have come across and we have no problems checking her skin even if she is wearing her full coat.  Her issues are not medication related, because we have had her off everything and their is no difference, she is on anti histamines at the moment.  I have noticed habitual biting at certain times for instance whilst I am preparing their meals or after she has been playing with Zak and I am using distracting tactics or i can simply tell her to stop and she will,  if we have to leave her at all, she gets to model the lampshade ......and I get the guilt trip. Kees are companion dogs, also known as velcro dogs and she originally used to scratch holes in the kitchen walls if I left her, we don't have that problem now but she has done the worst damage to her self more recently when we left her for an hour or two one evening, we have also tried the adaptil diffuser.    She does also wake up from a deep sleep to bite/scratch hence I am not convinced it is entirely behavioral. Hence why we are eliminating possibilities in her diet, excess protein did seem unlikely but I couldn't 100% discard it especially after her latest bad period, I looked over everything she'd had, including a lot of cheese from another dog owner during a show, plus another owner also gave her a large handful of kibble (which when I checked her recommendation was higher in protein than MM which we feed her on now.  Oh which reminds me, RC  gave her terrible gas and you could often hear her tummy, reminded me of the problems we had with our GSD when he had his food allergies.  MM black angus doesn't have that effect on her and contains no maize which is what I wanted to eliminate first and she has had periods of time where she hasn't been uncomfortable on MM, my plan at present is to continue with MM and her low protein treats, now during our show season it is obviously more difficult to control what she gets, as well meaning owners fall for those big brown eyes, oh and she has been encouraged to rob a couple of older ladies of their pocket full of treats at ringcraft..not by me i may add. I have never fed her a lamb based diet so that is my starting point to research for a blank canvas, I remember Wainwrights do a hypoallergenic Lamb variety so that maybe a place to start for the blank canvass once we have completed the elimination process. Thank you so much for your reply Coaster it has helped seeing it all written down, especially in my present mind set when my thought process is not doing so well :)   

Hi  :)

I'm new to the forum but use the site regularly. I am owned by two adorable Keeshonden........and I'm now wondering how many people will be sitting reading this saying, eh what? 8) It's the reaction we always get.  They are also known as Dutch Barge dogs or Kees for short.  My first enlightening experience in regard to dog food was with our first GSD who had skin problems caused by a off the shelf supermarket dog food, eventually we got him sorted and back to living a full healthy happy life. A couple of years after he went over the rainbow bridge, we started our journey with our two Kees, brother and sister, they will be 2 later this month, unfortunately my baby girl is having itchy skin issue's so bad she is literally pulling her undercoat out in chunks, biting to the point where she is making herself bleed. She was previously fed on premium priced kibble which wasn't so premium in quality, but it was what the breeder had recommended, having had experience with eliminating allergens  previously and doing tons of research I switched her kibble and proceeded to eliminate allergens, now we're working on the basis at present that her problem may stem from too much protein rather than being allergen specific. So I am looking for healthy snack/treat idea's which are protein free, she is having a small amount of sweet potato with her morning meal, she is used to having a treat at lunch time  (usually a raw carrot) her kibble at 4pm and then a treat while we eat our evening meal, this used to be dried tripe, duck fillet, chicken etc but obviously trying to reduce her protein intake means these have to go...and this is where I am stuck for ideas, Training/ring treats are usually dehydrated apple,banana, strawberries which they both love.  She'd happily munch a couple of carrots a day but would this cause another set of problems long term? Should I be worrying about vitamin toxicity? How much of a good thing is too much? Any idea's, advice, guidance would be appreciated  TIA x

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