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Messages - gemma

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The Chappie link was interesting & confirms everything  I thought I knew. Spoke to one of my own vets yesterday, who said that, as long as the pancreatic blood test is negative, he doesn't see anything wrong with 6.9% fat, whereas another vet from the practice said it was too high - so even vets can't agree! He told me about TROVET Unique Protein UPH wet food (pure meat), which is only 5% fat, so I'm waiting to hear from them as to whether there's any BPA in the tins or carrageenan.  I've also found a natural vit & mineral supplement - Winston & Porter Nourish + C  (I've waffled on about not wanting anything with synthetic vits & minerals on here previously).

I'd happily cook for her, but about the only meat she hasn't had is horse or from exotic animals - so impossible to buy. One good thing is, as I've never given her meat & animal derivatives, at least I know what her novel proteins would be. The hospital vet told me that if a dog has had only one meal containing a particular meat - no matter how long ago - it could no longer be considered a novel protein.

Depending upon the outstanding blood test result & if her condition doesn't worsen, I'm inclined try the novel protein option, at least at first.

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Thanks, Dottie - I've been feeding 3 times per day, but will up it to 4. Ultrasound & bloods unremarkable, but pancreatitis result still awaited. Could be scavenging, but vet's leaning towards IBD (either food, antibiotic or steroid-responsive gastrointestinal inflammation). Has to have Panacur for 7 days, but she has Four Seasons wormer monthly, so I can't see that it's going to be due to parasites.

The only way to get a definitive diagnosis is through endoscopy and/or colonoscopy, which vet says has risks.

He told me to leave off her supplements, which makes perfect sense. She's been having golden paste, Astaxanthin, Dr. Mercola whole body glandular support for female dogs & Adored Beast Love Bugs pro/prebiotics, which might be overdoing it a bit!

Without being patronizing or rude, I got the distinct impression his opinion was that, as a qualified vet, he knew far more than I as to what is good & bad in dog foods. He considers what I give as over-priced & does not approve of smaller manufacturers. He says Mars, Nestle, Hills have far superior research/testing/quality control facilities. When I pointed out the Mars' recall due to excess Vitamin D, he said their superiority was proved by the fact they found out - but I can't help but think it would have been better if this had been discovered prior to leaving the factory. His response to Naturavetal's suggestion of horse as a novel protein was "where does the horse come from?" He disregarded the details of the flakes they suggested to reduce fat content without giving a reason. He feeds his dog Chappie. When I criticized the sugar in Purina, he said we all need sugar.

I can see that 6.9% fat in wet food could be too high & thought about substituting some of it with oats or rice, Will have to check with vet, but can anyone think of something else fairly high in calories, low in fat?

He's recommending either:-

Purina HA hypoallergenic – soya-based; biscuits; relatively low in fat (cf. other diets in this group)
Royal Canin Hypoallergenic – soya-based; biscuits and tinned
Royal Canin Anallergenic – chicken feather-based; biscuits
Hill’s Prescription Diet z/d – chicken liver-based; biscuits and tinned
Specific Allergen Management Plus – salmon-based; biscuits and trays
Affinity Hypoallergenic – soya-based; biscuits

I feel completely demoralized & am beginning to wonder if everything I thought I knew about dog food is rubbish. I guess every regular visitor to this site is, like me, fairly fanatical about what is good & bad & every instinct, rightly or wrongly, turns me against these foods, but don't want to harm her by not listening to the vet.

I'm totally confused, doubt my own judgement & still very worried about her & concerned that, whatever I decide will be the wrong decision.

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Thank you both for replying. No, she doesn't have any other issues that might point to an allergy. Normally, she's a pig, but, starting in January, every so often she didn't want her breakfast till later, ate loads of grass & showed signs of discomfort or feeling sick. Vet could find nothing wrong &, for 10 weeks, she was fine, then it occurred 3 times in the next month & there was a tiny bit of bright red blood in her poo twice, followed by quite a lot a few days later. She's never sick & no diarrhea. The problem is always in the morning. Faecal sample was negative.

Each version of her current food consists of a single protein source from muscle meat and organs and the one I mainly feed is turkey, Whilst I'm unwilling to go against the vet's advice & possibly harm her, ideally, I'd like to switch to another version of her food, and they sell dehydrated fruit/veg/seed flakes with which I could replace some of the wet food to reduce the fat content.  The vet indicated that the switch to hydrolised should probably be permanent, but junk like that would surely bring it's own problems. I made it quite clear what I thought about it, but could tell the vet didn't see anything wrong with the nutritional value, so I'm between a rock and a hard place at the moment. 

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My dog has appointment at a referral hospital on Tuesday for an intermittent digestive problem. Of course, I can't be sure of anything until I get a diagnosis, but IBD might be a possibility. During a preliminary telephone consultation with one of their vets, she thinks a hydrolised protein diet may be advisable. She prefers this to trying a novel protein diet. Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diets HA Hypoallergenic was praised.

Apart from being worried to death about what might be wrong with her, I am now deeply depressed about the possibility of her having this utter muck. Doubtless, it is good at controlling IBD and other digestive issues, but the ingredients are beyond horrendous:-

Maize starch*
Hydrolysed soya protein**
Minerals
Coconut oil
Sugar*
Rapeseed oil
Cellulose
Glycerine (from vegetable origin)
Soya oil
Fish oil

The vet thinks the ingredients are good & a qualified nutritionalist I emailed enquiring about home made recipes thinks it's an excellent food, so  I'm beginning to feel like I'm a voice in the wilderness, because I know, without a doubt, that the contents are some of the most unhealthy I've ever read about.

My dog's current wet food is 6.9% fat. which I think is about 35% fat on a dry matter basis, but I could supplement this with something else to reduce the fat content if that's causing a problem & try horse instead of turkey.

I just wondered if anyone here had tried a novel protein source for digestive issues and the outcome.  I am, of course, reluctant to go against anything the experts say, but I've always been pleased she has good nutrition & can't bear the thought of her having rubbish with harmful ingredients. How anyone can think something with sugar, etc. and not a scrap of meat is nutritious is a complete mystery to me.

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Home cooking / Re: Cookable raw dog food products
« on: Apr 17, 2021, 14:05 »
These seem excellent, but, as with other expensive food, their feeding guide seems on the low side. For an 8kg dog they recommend 168g/day, whereas the calculator here for their mighty mince says 301g - which seems much more accurate.  I've emailed them about this and also asked them to provide percentages for the rest of the ingredients, as they only give this for the meat content and, for complete transparency, I like to know everything.

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Dog treats / Re: Healthy dental chews?
« on: Apr 15, 2021, 13:25 »
Chewroots is something I've just discovered. Looks like a gnarled piece of wood, but is made from tree roots. Unlike wood, it doesn't splinter and just flakes off in small pieces when vigorously chewed. They say it's 100% natural & it's ok if the bits are eaten. My dog likes it & I think it's far preferable to rubber dental toys because of the toxic chemicals in most of them.

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General discussion / 5% discount from Canine Elite
« on: Mar 07, 2021, 15:08 »
Canine Elite seem to permanently have a 5% discount code, which changes every couple of months. The current code is BDDT. You have to google Canine Elite discount code, as it doesn't give it on their website. They only sell good quality brands which they approve of.  Akela, Canagen dry food, Eden, Guru, Meat Love, Naturavetal and Tribal are listed, but a search may result in more, as their website is not very good. You have to spend £75 after discount to get free delivery though. https://www.canineeliteoutlet.com/

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Recalls and alerts / Re: Mars Petcare UK recall
« on: Feb 19, 2021, 12:34 »
As it seems these recalls are usually due to excess vitamin D (also the reason for the Hills recall, which killed dogs), it makes me wonder if there are also sometimes excess levels of other vitamins we're not informed about because they're not considered toxic like vitamin D. 

The following is an extract from https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vitamins-dogs-3-reasons-stay-away/ - I assume the same applies to the UK:-

"You may be trying to avoid Chinese ingredients for your dog. And that’s an excellent idea because China has a terrible track record when it comes to food safety … in 2007 alone, synthetic vitamin premixes from China killed over 4,000 cats and dogs.

Yet China owns over 90% of the vitamin C market in the US and most of the vitamins in dog foods are manufactured in China and India.

This should worry you because only 2 percent of all imported vitamins are inspected. And China’s top vitamin and supplement producing areas are among the most polluted in the world"

Also, the only reason I can think of for most treats having added synthetic vitamins & minerals is to fool owners into thinking they are more healthy. I would never choose foods with synthetic additives, but the choice of cooked brands in the UK (to my knowledge) is limited to 3.

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Dog treats / Re: Healthy dental chews?
« on: Jan 05, 2021, 14:27 »
Thanks, Dottie, I'll do that.

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Dog treats / Re: Healthy dental chews?
« on: Jan 05, 2021, 12:47 »
Thanks for taking the time to give all that valuable information, Dottie, and I'm now very tempted to buy one, My only reservation is about their toothpaste - do you use it? I am quite concerned about some of the ingredients.  I've only had a very quick look, but have found "Sodium c-14-16 Olefin Sulfonate has links to organ system toxicity and Disodium Pyrophosphate can lead to kidney stones".

Perhaps that is the only toothpaste that can be used in order to create a foam, but I'd be much happier using a more natural product, although I admit to being paranoid, as I investigate every single ingredient I don't know about in everything she has.

Apart from that, I think it's worth giving it a try, although it does annoy me that virtually everything for dogs is far more expensive than the human equivalent.

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Dog treats / Re: Healthy dental chews?
« on: Jan 04, 2021, 15:53 »
I'm very glad you mentioned that, Dottie, because it's something I have considered in the past, so I'd welcome your advice. Which one did you buy? I've just watched a YouTube video advocating Emmipet and it says it takes about 3 minutes each side, which seems a very long time for a dog to tolerate? I wonder if dogs can hear them even if no sound is detectable to humans, which would put her against it.

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Dog treats / Re: Healthy dental chews?
« on: Jan 04, 2021, 13:37 »
I totally agree with you, Dottie, that brushing is essential. I clean my dog's teeth every day - mainly because I'm not very good at it, so hope the frequency will make up for my ineptitude!

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Dog treats / Re: Healthy dental chews?
« on: Jan 04, 2021, 12:07 »
I wouldn't put the milk bone chews in the "healthy dental chews" category. The ingredients are Brewers Rice, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken By-product Meal, Propylene Glycol, Dried Skim Milk, Modified Food Starch, Dextrin, Water, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Bone Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Gelatin, Animal Digest, Potassium Sorbate (Used As A Preservative), Phosphoric Acid, Titanium Dioxide (Color).  However effective they may be at tartar control, there are quite a few ingredients I wouldn't want my dog to eat.

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Hello Steve - I would like to see small oily fish, such as sardines, included as a source of Omega 3 instead of the usual salmon (which I won't feed because of the high mercury levels in large fish). As far as I know, no-one provides this. Also organic options would be nice - also hard to find.  Personally, I won't feed anything with added synthetic vitamins and minerals, either, although I know this doesn't bother most people.

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Feeding dogs with health problems / Re: Wet Food Additives
« on: Oct 05, 2020, 14:31 »
Vivann - re. gelling/thickening agents in wet food, this is one of the many questions I asked about my dog's food, which is carrageenan free. This is their reply "None required they’re just pure meat. We use meat broth which is made from the connective tissue this creates a kind of gelatine. So nothing other than the animal advised, no chemicals no additives".

The thing I like about it is there are no synthetic vitamins or minerals added - it's not cheap though and my dog needs more than the RDA to maintain weight! https://www.naturavetal.co.uk/shop/en/canis-plus-dogs/complete-meals

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