Rip Off Britain on Raw Food

[Dottie]

Rip Off Britain discusses raw food for dogs. Gloria Hunniford covers the subject - she has acquired a new Cavalier pup.  The piece is at 18.20 minutes into the episode. Gloria discusses the subject with clinical  nutritionist and lecturer Mike Davies and visits the British Veterinary Association for it's opinion.

There is an all too familiar account of an itchy dog whose condition has been transformed by having raw food. A while ago I read that it is now thought that storage mite allergy in dogs is more common than once supposed. I therefore wonder if some of these dogs are being helped by the elimination of storage mite rather than the raw diet itself. If so, the same thing could be achieved by home cooking or feeding a good quality, grain free wet food.  The other thing that occurs to me is that you rarely hear of what the dog was fed before and this makes comparisons all but impossible.

Mike Davies does not recommend raw feeding for puppies because of the nutritional element of it and explains quite clearly why.

[Meg]

Thanks for the heads up Dottie.

It seemed to me that the segment covering raw feeding tried to be pretty fair in the short time available. Though an unsurprising mixture of answers given by the show-ring folks as to what they fed. 

Overall, I felt the BVA slanted slightly more towards the fears surrounding pathogens in raw meat.

[Dottie]

Yes, these items are usually too short. I can see Gloria's point in discontinuing raw feeding. Sounds like she was very ill. I have a friend who is in the process of taking her dog off raw food because she is due to have surgery which will be very close to the brain. She is looking for an alternative food so would like to have known what Gloria chose.

The BVA's stance on raw feeding/pathogen risk is well known. Mike Davies looked at it from a nutritional aspect and I found that interesting, particularly in relation to puppies.

[Meg]

Yes it sounds like Gloria is at this time veering towards moving away from raw food and this may indicate a change to Polly's diet, but at the same time is saying "the jury is still out" implying that she may not....keeps us guessing awhile methinks! 

Naturally this is an owner's decision to make, yet I can't help feeling that as this is being discussed on the BBC,  it may prompt the Kennel Club Accredited Breeder (who has weaned the pup onto raw food) to also desire a discussion of a possible change to the pup's diet. We shall see!

Mike was rightly concerned with the need to get the nutrient balance right in a raw food diet. One point he made was feeding too much meat would lead to a shortage of calcium. Yet adding more calcium as a supplement would affect other minerals such as zinc and copper.

[COASTER]

I watched the footage.

No compelling evidence that appropriate raw feeding is a health risk to healthy dogs.

The same bacteria risks arguably apply to handling uncooked meat used for human meals if basic hygiene precautions are not undertaken.

Many anti-raw brigade eat home prepared roast dinners & eat in restaraunts where staff  handle uncooked meat.

Not having the correct ratios of meat, bone & offal is a separate issue to bacteria concerns & can be easily addressed or avoided.

Nothing mentioned convinces me that feeding well sourced, suitably stored & prepared raw food is dangerous......that is assuming people are capable enough to take basic hygiene steps.

[DeclanjjWhelan]

Thought it was a great watch.

I find it hard coming to terms with the raw diet due to the increased risk of pathogens. No matter how you think about it, raw chicken around in the house just carriers more bacteria, fact.

I also have concerns over the nutritional completeness of a lot of the meals too.

[Dottie]

Coaster - your last sentence is very pertinent. My job involved going into houses and believe me, the basic hygiene steps of which you speak vary widely. The dog in the film was eating stuffed hoof and happily dragging it all over the floor! It doesn't take much imagination to consider what might happen if/when a baby or toddler comes along and the parent hasn't washed the floor.

Anyone who has been involved in dealing with infections, particularly antibiotic resistant ones is going to take a more serious view of this. People who work in the medical professions are seeing these problems on a regular basis so it is hardly surprising that they are not in favour of anything that poses an unnecessary risk. By and large, the majority of dogs do not need to eat raw meat - they thrive perfectly well on alternative food. 

There is enough research to indicate that there is a risk, particularly from shedding but maybe it is a question of how much. If folk want to feed raw then that's ok but they should at least be made fully aware of the potential problems so I am glad that programmes  like this are educating the public. They might well encourage people to feed raw responsibly.

From personal experience, I am not quite sure that companies do enough to get the message about bacteria in raw meat across, particularly for households that include vulnerable people. 

BTW does anyone know whether or not every single batch of raw food destined for pet food is tested for bacteria?

[COASTER]

My frustration is that many who express concerns re raw batteria  also handle uncooked meat usec for human meals. Rightly or wrongly......many home & commercial chefs/cooks don't wash their hands every 5 minutes !

Most owners pick up dog faeces & get licked by dogs after they have been rolling in, licking,  scavenging  & sniffing allsorts.

I would be interested to see any evidence of serious human illnesses that have been linked to raw dog food or exposude to shedding dogs fed on raw. Maybe those concerned should NEVER stroke another dog without proof raw has never been fed !

Bateria control info on products that I mainly currently feed contained within this CLICKY article .... I cannot evidence what measures are in place for every BARF supplier.

[COASTER]

Thought it was a great watch.

I find it hard coming to terms with the raw diet due to the increased risk of pathogens. No matter how you think about it, raw chicken around in the house just carriers more bacteria, fact.

I also have concerns over the nutritional completeness of a lot of the meals too.

Declan,

I would be interested to know the following.....

Do you ever handle raw poultry or other meat when preparing meals in the home ?

Do you eat food from restaraunts, cafes, take aways ?

I agree quality can vary .... Any specific products that you have nutritional concerns about ?

[Meg]

Sometimes it is worth stating the obvious......sorry if this sounds like it is just that..... the obvious! Nonetheless, there must be those suitably correct degrees and standards of hygiene in place for handling all food albeit raw food, or not - surely that is a given.

When we handle raw food with the intention of cooking and eating the food ourselves, the greater 'risk' to us is during storage and preparation of the raw food; in other words the pre-ingestion stage! Our responsibility lies with ensuring the raw food is cooked correctly, along with thoroughly cleaning the storage and preparation areas appropriately.

When we handle raw food with the intention of feeding the food to our dogs, then in addition to those 'risks' (of storage and preparation of raw food), there are further important and relevant 'risks' to ourselves and others when the dog is actually in the process of eating raw food (the ingestion stage)  and of course after the dog has eaten raw food.

And if your dog is possibly one to always eat every raw meal in the same place and always from a dog's bowl then any associated 'risk' is naturally lessened.....However, in reality, dogs thoroughly enjoy dragging along and chomping down on their raw food. [I've known many to enjoy a raw rack of lamb bones in this way!!] And hand-in-hand with that method of feeding come the associated and necessary responsibilities.

 This is one of many reasons why feeding a dog raw food must surely absolutely be an individual choice.

[COASTER]

Meg,

Thanks for the reply.

I am glad we seem to agree that humans contacting raw dog food is of similar risk to contacting raw meat for human conumption.

As for the risk to humans from raw dog food ingestion ..Ours get fed outside or occasionally in a cleaned porch. I discourage kissing/licking after a feed, (as indicated dogs regularly mouth contact arguably worse things...thankfully Lycozyme kills many germs).

Feeding any food is an individual choce. My issue is not with those that do not feed or promote feeding raw. My issue is that shared misinformation or part information might genuinely cause some to make an ill informed individual choice.

Quite simply I felt the programme article included some contributions which were not fully evidenced, were misleading &/or lacked context.

[Meg]

My issue is that shared misinformation or part information might genuinely cause some to make an ill informed individual choice.

Yes I understand what you are saying, and I agree that if information (in context) is being supplied inaccurately and is further compounded by being shared as such, then in it's own way, this is less desirable than not being given the information in the first place! 

Coaster, can you please say what information was wrong?

[DQ]

I feed raw food to my dogs. I like to think I apply sensible hygeine measures to all the food I prepare. Whilst not wishing to go off on a tangent it is worth noting people have suffered ecoli and samonella from eating washed bagged salad. Indeed 2 people died from eating bagged rocket. We seemed to have lost all common sense approach to handling food.

[Dottie]

IIRC the programmes that have recently been on television about the risk of feeding raw food to dogs have not been specifically about handling it but more geared towards shedding of pathogenic bacteria by the dog.  There are studies which have indicated that this can, and does occur.  Also, some dogs can by asymptomatic carriers of bacteria. 

[DQ]

My point was that there are risks from all sorts of foods, not just raw dog meat.