Author Topic: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food  (Read 5343 times)

COASTER

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #15 on: Jun 08, 2017, 11:59 »
My issue is that shared misinformation or part information might genuinely cause some to make an ill informed individual choice.


Coaster, can you please say what information was wrong?

The programme featured 3 interviews during which contributors spoke of nutritional risks by getting ratios of meat, bone, offal & muscle correct. I accept this gives some risk but this can be achieved down DIY route with some care. Good raw complete products help negate this risk. The contributors making bacteria comments made some comments which lacked context.

I am mindful the programme made reference to shedding & that this has been discussed on here. Whilst I accept that some may have concerns I am yet to see any factual findings linking bacteria from shedding to human illness or risk of same. I am happy to consider any evidence offered on the subject with an open mind.

I accept that risks can vary depending on control factors, environment & differing individual vulnerabilities.  I can see why some high risk households might have to take additional hygiene measures or perhaps even choose to feed other food types in extreme cases.

It would be more helpful if programme makers & dog feeding communities did more to cause owners to make informed decisions. For those that choose to feed raw, perhaps some new or uneducated in it might benefit from being imparted with good advice re do's & don'ts rather than advised against feeding it.

I don't want to seem to turn on anti-raw feeders, however, depending on various factors there can be risks with other food types - not least some kibbles. Again folk need to aware of potential risks & issues.

I should also add that whilst I happily feed raw complete now I am open minded enough to consider other food types for the future. I have prior fed kibble &  it is no secret that I have prior taken an interest in cold pressed, air & freeze dried products. I am not opposed to decent home cooked meals either.

Finally & somewhat on a tangent......I think it is relevant that we consider the name of the TV show that featured the article on raw dog food "RIP OFF BRITAIN"

It is no secret that costs of feeding raw food to dogs can be relatively high.  I am very mindful of the daily cost to feed ours on a decent quality raw complete. If manufacturers of decent quality raw complete foods genuinely want to continue to enjoy good business then some might argue that something needs to be done to reduce prices of raw complete food.

If raw complete prices were more competitive then I feel more existing customers might stay feeding quality raw completes instead of considering switching to the multitude of d.i.y. raw pet food suppliers...... As has been highlighted on here before, the price differences per kg are huge. The reality is that many raw feeders start on raw complete, educate themselves & go on to source from more basic raw suppliers that serve the D.I.Y. customer base.

I hope some manufacturers or raw compete foods do more to retain existing customers or to attract them from d.i.y. suppliers, (of which there are many).
 

Meg

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #16 on: Jun 09, 2017, 00:21 »
BTW does anyone know whether or not every single batch of raw food destined for pet food is tested for bacteria?

Knowing that manufacturers of pet food need approval from DEFRA to process animal by products (ABPs) into pet food (including raw dog food) is reassuring as (firstly) there are specific categories of food that may not be used -  as defined in their guidance. Here is the link:

 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/animal-by-product-categories-site-approval-hygiene-and-disposal
     Of note Category 1 APBs and Category 2 APBs -  described and rated as high risk - reassuringly cannot be used in pet food. Whereas the definition of category 3 APBs is rated low risk and may be used.

And (secondly) these DEFRA regulations of 9 October 2014 issue specific information about raw food and reassuringly include that raw foods must be tested for bacterial infection.

Various quotes from the DEFRA regulations regarding manufacturing raw pet food are as follows:

“You must take samples from raw pet food”

“You must send samples to be tested for:
•   Enterobacteriaceae
•   Salmonella”

“Take a separate sample for Salmonella and Enterobacteriaceae from each of your product lines. You must have a different product line for:
•   each species of meat or offal that you process
•   each species of tripe that you process"

"Each sample should be made up of 10 sub-samples of 30 grams taken randomly from the product line."

"The frequency of sampling will depend on several factors specific to each pet food facility.”

"The Animal and Plant Health Agency (APHA) may ask you to carry out additional tests as one of your operating conditions."

"Your sample will fail if any sub-sample contains any Salmonella colonies"

"A sample of raw pet food will fail if:
any of the sub-samples contains more than 5,000 Enterobacteriaceae colonies per gram
3 or more sub-samples contain more than 10 Enterobacteriaceae colonies per gram"

“Raw pet food must be packaged in clean leak-proof packaging.”


I'm unaware of how many of the species that make up the Enterobacteriaceae family are tested. Suffice to say there is a helpful section on identification of Bacteria, in the “UK Standards for Microbiology Investigations”, issued by Public Health England dated 13 April 2015. Notably, the “bacterial family Enterobacteriaceae currently has 53 genera” (groups) and of these, “26 genera are known to be associated with infections in humans”.

So as well as testing specifically for Salmonella,  it's this particular family of bacteria (Enterobacteriaceae) that is tested, yet which specific of the 170+ known species is unclear.

Meg

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #17 on: Jun 09, 2017, 01:22 »
It would be more helpful if programme makers & dog feeding communities did more to cause owners to make informed decisions. For those that choose to feed raw, perhaps some new or uneducated in it might benefit from being imparted with good advice re do's & don'ts rather than advised against feeding it.

Yes I agree that dog owners could be helped to make better informed decisions on nutrition using the medium of TV.  Currently owners are helped regarding raw feeding by using the threads in the Raw Feeding section in this forum,  by researching through the vast amounts of currently accessible information, and by reading appropriate referenced articles in books and scientific papers.

I'd also say that whoever advises against feeding raw food would have their own reasons for doing so, and which we are probably not aware of, unless of course their reasons are explained. The obverse when advising to feed raw food is also true yet a raw food diet does not suit all dogs. So for example, having had a dog that did not thrive on a raw food diet,  I would not use that as a reason to advise against feeding raw food per se. However, I would advise that whatever food is fed to a dog, it must be nutritiously appropriate for that individual dog.

Quote
I don't want to seem to turn on anti-raw feeders, however, depending on various factors there can be risks with other food types - not least some kibbles. Again folk need to aware of potential risks & issues.

It may be an idea to begin a thread on "Dog food - Potential risks and issues" ?


Quote
It is no secret that costs of feeding raw food to dogs can be relatively high.  I am very mindful of the daily cost to feed ours on a decent quality raw complete. If manufacturers of decent quality raw complete foods genuinely want to continue to enjoy good business then some might argue that something needs to be done to reduce prices of raw complete food.

Absolutely agree with you that high quality raw complete dog food is pretty expensive at the moment!! This reminds me of when 5* kibble initially appeared at vastly inflated prices.  :o

As you say there are those that feel able to supply a nutritionally correctly balanced raw food diet of their own making for their dogs;  yet for others that wish to feed a raw diet, the proportional peace of mind that comes with supplying an already  complete raw food could prove worth paying the extra cost.


 

Dottie

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #18 on: Jun 09, 2017, 08:40 »
Thank you for clarifying Meg - I am only partially reassured.

At this point, I would agree with Gloria that it is confusing for pet owners. Please may we turn the thread into one that might be useful for pet owners who are considering the change? My own suggestions are:

* Why feed raw?  Read up as much as possible about it before deciding.  This is really important, especially if going down the DIY route as it is essential to provide a balanced diet.  At the moment there is no evidence that it is  'better' for the dog in terms of health and longevity although adherents are often very enthusiastic about raw feeding. However, certain dogs with health issues might do better on raw. In such cases, discuss with the vet who is treating the dog.
* Consider your dog's age and lifestyle. Sedentary dogs might not be able to utilize the food to its full extent. Fat has the highest number of calories and excess protein that cannot be utilized by the dog is excreted and also laid down as fat. If you have to feed consistently below the lower RDA of 2% of ideal body weight to prevent weight gain, it might not be the ideal product.
* Processing - if minimal processing is a priority for the pet owner, raw feeding is a good choice. Some good quality wet foods mimic raw in composition and might be worth considering. Some are steamed.
* Vulnerable persons in contact with the dog. There has been scientific research that dogs who eat infected meat can pose a risk to humans. If in doubt, talk to your health care practitioner.
Your post and comments may be helpful to others. Please remember to update your thread. Feedback to the forum is appreciated.

Meg

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #19 on: Jun 09, 2017, 11:52 »
.... another suggestion with considering a change of diet to begin feeding your dog raw food is to assess the health of your dog beforehand.

It's important to be aware that if your dog is experiencing or suffers from a gastrointestinal disorder, (and this includes for example vomitting,  constipation, diarrhoea), then 'food' is not being dealt with at the normal rate, in the bowel. These circumstances would allow bacteria in raw food a greater opportunity to multiply.





   

Dottie

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #20 on: Jun 09, 2017, 12:37 »
That is a good point. It is not uncommon for people to change food in response to illness in the dog but actually this can be the worst time, especially if the dog's symptoms are gastrointestinal.
Your post and comments may be helpful to others. Please remember to update your thread. Feedback to the forum is appreciated.

DeclanjjWhelan

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #21 on: Jun 15, 2017, 07:33 »
HI Coaster,

Sorry for taking so long to come back to you.

Do you ever handle raw poultry or other meat when preparing meals in the home ? -> Yes I do.

Do you eat food from restaraunts, cafes, take aways ? -> Yes.

I agree quality can vary .... Any specific products that you have nutritional concerns about ? -> Any raw food that is complementary to begin with. My issue really is there are many many raw dog food companies now that are starting up and it seems to be a bit "trendy". I worry that there are so many out there now, you really have to be careful as to what goes into the end product. None to specifically name and shame, more of a broader raw dog food issue. There are of course some great brands and those are the ones that I have full faith in so it is not every single raw dog food company.

Thanks,
Declan.

COASTER

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #22 on: Jun 15, 2017, 10:31 »
Thanks for reply......

As with all food types quality can vary.....Fortunately this site can help folk make informed choices.

I mentioned handling uncooked meat for later human consumption & eating to add perspective as bacteria risks to humans can exist far beyond the dog bowl.


DeclanjjWhelan

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #23 on: Jun 15, 2017, 11:38 »
Completely understand what you are saying!

I have tried Natural Instinct and found that to be a great one.

COASTER

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Re: Rip Off Britain on Raw Food
« Reply #24 on: Jun 15, 2017, 15:41 »
 ;)


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